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+--- Thread: Question About Fighter Turrets On Cap Ships (/showthread.php?tid=1510)
Question About Fighter Turrets On Cap Ships - DarkOddity - 08-30-2006
Ok I'll get right to the point:
This post is directed at two 'frowned upon' turrets, the Marsflyer Side Turret & Tizona Del Cid Turrets. Both are very nice decently powered turrets, but in comparison to capital ship turrets they excel and require very little power to operate.
I know it is frowned upon by a pretty (and astonishingly) large amount of players in Discovery to equip these turrets on your capital ship because of the damage they can provide with such a low power drain.
Now my question is, since equipping these turrets is viewed as a "dishonorable" tactic by most, does this give players facing a player with these loadouts the right to disobey server rules by F1ing in combat?
Now that I have that question out there, I have alitle input to add on battleships:
I personally believe all capital ship weaponry needs to either have it's damage multiplied by 2.5, or all power drain stats need to be reduced by 65% (Not Including battlerazors & infernos on power reduction) The reason for this is, at the current time, it takes *several* hits with just about any weapon made for a capital ship just to destroy a target, and like mentioned by Korrd before, these ships according to FL Storyline *are* supposed to have the power to do system jumps without the use of a Jumphole or Jumpgate, which requires amazing amounts of power, with that said, let me address power consumtion versus damage.
At current, capital ships equipped with any kind of weapon that is decent against fighters (excluding those weapons I mentioned above) require immense amounts of power to use, with proper capital ship turrets for dispatching fighters (even missile turrets) if you get attacked by a group of 5-10 enemy fighters and you are in a cruiser, odds are by the time you get half way through them your power capacitors are going to be either completely or nearly fully drained let alone in a fight with a battleship. At the current time battleships are pretty well balanced against eachother, but they *shouldn't* have power problems. What we need is to have alitle touch of the "power drain" granted by alot of the shield busters (tizonas specificly) that actually drain an enemy cap ships power supply, what this would do is give an advantage to the player who got the enemy cap ships shields down first, by letting them drain power on the other cap ship... So here are a few ideas and I will explain my idea of what the end result would be:
Increase Cap Ship Shields to x2 current value, give them stats that are strong vs capital ship weapons, but weak vs fighters to account for the massive increase.
Increase Damage by 2.5x on all cap ship weapons. (Excluding Battlerazor) which should get a 1.5x Damage Increase)
Increase cap ship powersupplies to reduce power at a slower rate with high-consumption loadouts. (Any cap ship should be able to fire constantly for atleast 35 seconds with their highest energy consumption loadout rated for their class of ship)
Add above mentioned "drain ability" to capital ship weapons.
Improve Inferno weapons to 3x the Shield Damage as opposed to 2.5, give them the ability to drain capital ship power supplies. (This would enable them to be usefull *after* you down the enemies shields by assisting you with keeping them from firing their weaponry)
Increase all armor values of cap ships by 15% to account for hull damage increase on cap ship weapons.
What this would do is enhance capital ship battles by enabling more loadout configurations for variety, more potential to defend yourself against fighters as you would do double damage, however I present *NO CHANGES* to accuracy, or speed of the weapons meaning the fighters can dodge them at the *EXACT* same level of proficiency they can now, it would just mean when the cap ship hits them, it hurts, like it *SHOULD* Capital ship fights would be a bit more drawn out, and this would give less experienced players that don't know how to fine tune their loadouts to perfection the ability to actually hang out in a fight longer than a minute or two.
I am going to make a side mod for Discovery that changes all these values as a balance test so Igiss won't have to, I do however ask for assistance from anyone who can assist by hosting a locked test server to test the changes out, this would be a test server so it wouldn't matter on your internet ability so long as you can hold 5 players lag free for testing purposes.
Once again the work I will start doing tommorow will be purely for balance testing purposes and *will not* be released as a Discovery alternative, it will simply be given to the testers, Igiss & administration to see if it can be a good potential for future changes within the Discovery universe, once again @ Igiss, I'll do all the work for this so you don't have to, you have more important things to do and I want to donate some of my time to myself and my fellow patrons of the Discovery Gaming Community.
Question About Fighter Turrets On Cap Ships - Wolfpack98 - 08-30-2006
Firstly..
F1 out of combat is *NEVER* justified. Anyone F1'ing out of combat for any reason has earned a 3-day ban on the first offense, 2-week ban on the 2nd offense and a perma ban on the 3rd try.
That's the end of that story.
Now, as for "frowned upon".
As Igiss said, players have the right to mount whatever weapons on their ships. We cannot control it, nor do Korrd, sam and I have the time to police any such rules. The only rules we really have on mountable equipment are IDs and Shields. That's about it.
I don't know who came up with the Tizona Del Cid thing, it makes them unbalanced, yes, but if they F1 out of combat for that reason, It's a ban. regardless of the excuse they give.
Marsflyer side turret.. It's no more powerful than the Gunboat turrets.
Question About Fighter Turrets On Cap Ships - DarkOddity - 08-30-2006
Wolfpack98,Aug 30 2006, 12:50 AM Wrote:Marsflyer side turret.. It's no more powerful than the Gunboat turrets.
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My view exaclty, but I chose them because I wanted them.. Yet AMPOLORIN threw a hissy fit when we were doing combat in Connecticut and decided to F1 out instead of simply asking me to stop, then complained about it.
Anyways, what do you think of my ideas for the cap ship weaponry?
Question About Fighter Turrets On Cap Ships - Virus - 08-30-2006
Much too complicated... What you would end up doing is making battleships EVEN stronger, but not making the fights any longer.
What we need is greater generators, greater range, and greater shields. Possibly hulls, but that's debatable.
Question About Fighter Turrets On Cap Ships - Nightfall - 08-30-2006
Dark, learn to read, it was AMPOLIROS it was me, by the time I'd type stop and you stopped I would have been destroyed and the unmounted Heavy Mortars and what else I had in the hold would have been in yours!
I didn't see this earlier, I would have reacted. I F1ed, Wolf Ban me then, it took him less than 10 secs through my shield. We really need rules on BS weapons. Or do I proceed like with CUFF and rearrange my loadouts? Am I the only freakin' one who keeps to ballance here?
*EDIT: I should learn how to type: AMPOLIROS
Question About Fighter Turrets On Cap Ships - DarkOddity - 08-30-2006
Nightfall,Aug 30 2006, 01:27 AM Wrote:Dark, learn to read, it was AMPOPLIROS it was me, by the time I'd type stop and you stopped I would have been destroyed and the unmounted Heavy Mortars and what else I had in the hold would have been in yours!
I didn't see this earlier, I would have reacted. I F1ed, Wolf Ban me then, it took him less than 10 secs through my shield. We really need rules on BS weapons. Or do I proceed like with CUFF and rearrange my loadouts? Am I the only freakin' one who keeps to ballance here?
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Sorry for the misspell on your name, Nightfall. As for your shields, I didn't even start firing the mars flyers untill half way through them, it was my two Battleship Inferno cannons firing alternately that beat your shield down so quickly, the mars flyer turrets do *less* damage to shields than a corsair battleship turret does in the same timeframe so I don't see the issue here.
I have the marsflyers for anti fighter as nothing else has good projectile speed to energy consumption ratio. It just so happens that they are moderately effective against cap ships too.
Once again, running duel BS Infernos and Dual Battle Razors and firing them alternately (as opposed to at the exact same moment) maximizes their damage. That firing method is what I used to knock out your shields in such a short amount of time.
Like wolf said, they are about as powerful as a gunboat turret, but the reason I spent the 40 Million and 1 hour + time swapping out ships to get the stinking things was for their lower power drain & higher projectile speed so I can combat a fighter, which oddly enough, not a single person in a fighter has complained about it. Quite honestly I don't think banning is neccessary so long as you won't do it again, but it really sucks knowing you will never enter combat with me in the future because your skewed views on the loadout I choose to use on my Osiris, which was only powerful against you because I could dodge *your* Infernos & Battle razors when you couldn't dodge mine (Hence why I fly a smaller BS)
@ Virus:
The point is to make the battleships stronger, at the current time they are nothing more than freighters with decent turrets on them and smaller cargo holds.
See my personal view on the situation is *EVERY* capital ship of Battleship class or higher should be 500 Million and above, and have the power that I am proposing, cruisers would be 400 Million & above and Gunboats would be 300 Million and above. Then you should still have to pay current prices for the weapons loadouts. It would require some *real* work put into them with *real* results, at the current time you can do 10 runs and get an Osiris with a default (granted not good) loadout for 98 Million. If power and price was upped on capital ships it would leave a real sense of accomplishment for *everyone* who ventures to gain one, and would make them much less common than they are now because most players only have the patience to get enough to get into a fighter.
I do appreciate your post and opinion and I hope my recent feedback sheds alitle more light on my point of view for you Virus.
Question About Fighter Turrets On Cap Ships - Virus - 08-30-2006
Oi.... 300 million for a gunboat! That's.... INSANITY! I'm not spending a week and a half trading to get a 6 turret thing. My problem with insanity prices are I use my ships for RP purposes. RM in Rheinland ships. I plan on having one of each. Battleship, Cruiser, Gunboat, Fighter, Bomber. I'm missing the expensive ones. Why? They cost a lot of money. That price, only people ALREADY WITH battleships will ever have them. No one will spend that much time to get one.
I think your idea could be OK. But not the prices your suggesting...
Question About Fighter Turrets On Cap Ships - DarkOddity - 08-30-2006
Well the prices could be tweaked alitle bit, maybe lower the gunboat price to just over 100 mil or so..
Price wise I am mainly comparing Battleships to Evolutions (The only major mod with BS' I've played) and their cap ships aren't nearly as strong, they die in about the time one of our fighters die, but they definately have the firepower of battleships.
As for the prices though, I personally think it should take a couple or even a few weeks to get a battleship, after all it *is* a battleship.
Question About Fighter Turrets On Cap Ships - Virus - 08-30-2006
Its still too much. The jump from fighter to gunboat is MUCH too huge. 1.5 million to 100 million? Uh what? Prices are fine the way they are.
Question About Fighter Turrets On Cap Ships - DarkOddity - 08-30-2006
Well look at it this way, if you were to compare a modern day jetfighter cost of (I'm guestimating) $50,000,000 american dollars to a Modern day destroyer which is probrably upwards of a few *hundred* million dollars (If not a billion) it makes sense that the price differences would be about the same when it comes to purchasing fighters and cap ships in the game. Unfortunately vanilla FL doesn't leave us with a guide for pricing because it didn't include cap ships in the first place.