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+--- Thread: [High Priority] Official Notice: Core ID/Tech cell change (/showthread.php?tid=152221)
RE: Official Notice: Core ID/Tech cell change - Enkidu - 08-01-2017
(08-01-2017, 09:03 AM)Durandal Wrote:(08-01-2017, 08:47 AM)Toris Wrote: @Durandal Then, please do answer me a question in here. If a corp or Freelancer says that they have e.g. Orca in their hands and they say they stroke a deal with APM, then BHG is free to ignore that statement and threaten or even kill Freelancer or the corporate? I'm asking, because BHG are not manufacturers of said Orca but clients of APM. Hence my comparison to the paramilitary group and guy who buys AR-15 in the shop.
My thoughts on the matter essentially boil down to this.
If the APM exist as a player entity, which I would only be okay with if they are NOT tied to the BHG or Core OORPly, the following logic applies:
APM and BHG can distribute BHG tech
APM and Core can distribute Core tech.
If the APM distributes Core tech without the Core's permission, the Core can threaten/kill/whatever the recipient.
If the APM distributes BHGtech without the BHG's permission, the BHG can threaten/kill/whatever the recipient.
The problem is that the right now the whole thing is very skewed because the APM is being represented by the Core, rather than by a third party or as an NPC only entity.
Justin, Core invented APM as a company, and people were fine with all of this for years.
RE: Official Notice: Core ID/Tech cell change - Durandal - 08-01-2017
(08-01-2017, 09:05 AM)Tænì Wrote:(08-01-2017, 09:03 AM)Durandal Wrote:(08-01-2017, 08:47 AM)Toris Wrote: @Durandal Then, please do answer me a question in here. If a corp or Freelancer says that they have e.g. Orca in their hands and they say they stroke a deal with APM, then BHG is free to ignore that statement and threaten or even kill Freelancer or the corporate? I'm asking, because BHG are not manufacturers of said Orca but clients of APM. Hence my comparison to the paramilitary group and guy who buys AR-15 in the shop.
My thoughts on the matter essentially boil down to this.
If the APM exist as a player entity, which I would only be okay with if they are NOT tied to the BHG or Core OORPly, the following logic applies:
APM and BHG can distribute BHG tech
APM and Core can distribute Core tech.
If the APM distributes Core tech without the Core's permission, the Core can threaten/kill/whatever the recipient.
If the APM distributes BHGtech without the BHG's permission, the BHG can threaten/kill/whatever the recipient.
The problem is that the right now the whole thing is very skewed because the APM is being represented by the Core, rather than by a third party or as an NPC only entity.
Justin, Core invented APM as a company, and people were fine with all of this for years.
Core invented APM retroactively as a company that had been making BHG tech - the tech of another faction - for years. There is nothing fine about that at all. It was all well and dandy when the BHG was the BHG Core, but that is no longer the case.
The Core's invention of APM worked fine back then, but these aren't two sides of the same coin anymore. They're distinct entities, and the Core having monopoly over the APM does not work.
RE: Official Notice: Core ID/Tech cell change - Antonio - 08-01-2017
(08-01-2017, 08:50 AM)Tænì Wrote: Core invented APM - They're now no longer allowed to play APM? By that logic, Samura can't RP the production of KU navy vessels, or DHC RM vessels? The only comms or RP BHG ever makes is whining about stolen tech, anyhow.
No, they're not. Ever since the split between Core and BHG assets, they are only allowed to share the Core part of APM, while they still try to monitor both. THAT's the problem, and THAT's why it worked for all those years before because it was all the same entity. As for your other example, Samura definitely can roleplay the production of a capital vessel, but they can't roleplay giving that vessel out to whoever they please, at least not without the agreement from KNF. Just because you manufacture tech for someone doesn't mean you get to hand it over left and right as you please. You manufacture it for someone you have some sort of a contract with (Samura with KNF, Daumann with RM, APM with Core & BHG), and that someone gets to decide who else can have it other than them. APM manufactures Core tech for Core and BHG tech for BHG. BHG decides who gets to get their tech, not APM.
This whole thread makes me shake my head.
Edit: Your comment about BHG shows you're absolutely clueless when it comes to understanding roleplay. "The only RP BHG ever does"? BHG's main source of income and surviving is, surprise surprise, bounty hunting. How do you do bounty hunting? By killing bountied targets. What does that require? PvP. They're one of the few factions where PvP is almost entirely the faction's roleplay (PvP is a form of roleplay as much as typing essays in local chat is, and is a much better representation of it than drinking tea with the enemy), yet you get to complain how they "don't send comms". Sure, they could be doing more, by that logic any faction could, but they're already doing what they're supposed to - hunting bounties. They actually play they role by shooting everything that's bountied which is the definition and core of the faction's roleplay. Whether you like that form of roleplay or not is up to you, but don't talk nonsense about how they "don't RP".
RE: Official Notice: Core ID/Tech cell change - Toris (Old Account) - 08-01-2017
Actually, screw this. Not going to argue about that anymore.
RE: Official Notice: Core ID/Tech cell change - Durandal - 08-01-2017
(08-01-2017, 09:33 AM)Toris Wrote:Quote:BHG decides who gets to get their tech, not APM.
The BHG are clients of APM, not the way around.
The day APM stops being played by the Core (or hypothetically the BHG), is the day this will be acceptable.
RE: Official Notice: Core ID/Tech cell change - Impyness - 08-01-2017
Hi, just to clarify some things because I think people don't actually know the full APM background.
APM was not a company invented by the Core, it already existed at the time BHG and BHG|Core voluntarily went unofficial. At that point both factions had the same shipline and despite using two IDs were actually the same faction and the same leader. In this situation APM roleplaying out being the shipbuilder for both factions was actually okay.
https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=80003&pid=1207333#pid1207333 It also used a BHG, not a BHG Core ID as you can see here. Basically, when the factions went unofficial Lyth gained control of both the Core and APM and from then on he continued to RP APM as making ships for both factions except belonging to the Core.
As soon as the factions stopped being the same, APM honestly should have been renamed and treated as the AP- logistics division dedicated to the core rather than the group that served both.
RE: Official Notice: Core ID/Tech cell change - Durandal - 08-01-2017
(08-01-2017, 10:36 AM)Impyness Wrote: Hi, just to clarify some things because I think people don't actually know the full APM background.
APM was not a company invented by the Core, it already existed at the time BHG and BHG|Core voluntarily went unofficial. At that point both factions had the same shipline and despite using two IDs were actually the same faction and the same leader. In this situation APM roleplaying out being the shipbuilder for both factions was actually okay.
https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=80003&pid=1207333#pid1207333 It also used a BHG, not a BHG Core ID as you can see here. Basically, when the factions went unofficial Lyth gained control of both the Core and APM and from then on he continued to RP APM as making ships for both factions except belonging to the Core.
As soon as the factions stopped being the same, APM honestly should have been renamed and treated as the AP- logistics division dedicated to the core rather than the group that served both.
This is correct. To clarify, when I said "the Core invented APM retroactively" I was referring to the BHG Core, not Lythrilux's incarnation.