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+--- Thread: Smuggling problems and possible options to help. (/showthread.php?tid=155416)
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Smuggling problems and possible options to help. - Binski - 11-12-2017
Long time, no rant. Here's how I see the smuggling situation.
Try smuggling when there are lawfuls online, in place like Manhattan. The impromptu bonus on smuggling has sort of made me think. Why bother? All it does is make you think about logging and sneaking by when the system is empty. That shouldn't be an option players are pushed towards, when the alternative is certain loss. This has actually been something I've been trying to figure out for a while on how to make it so that logging out is not your best option when trying to smuggle past a lawful.
Its not that there shouldn't be cops or navy or LSF out to stop smuggling, of course they should. But what do they have to do to stop it? Nothing. They sit by the docking ring, with a cloak disruptor. So, even if you go for it cloaked, they can uncloak and no dock you and that's it. You walked into it ridiculously.
So all it made me think was, an event like that just makes me make less money, not more, and encourage more lawfuls to pile on, sort of scaring away any attempts. So, in many things, deterrence is a totally legit tactic to employ. They stop smuggling just by being on the field. But how much do they catch? And if so, was there a challenge? Was there a chance on both sides to succeed and/or fail within a reasonable margin?
Suggestion:
Put atmospheric docking points on all smuggling destination planets. Either would let you land and sell the good like normal. But at least you have a 50/50 chance of a successful approach, even when LPI/LSF/LN are in close proximity. It would also make them move around a bit and actually patrol, not just camp and wait. Is that what you lawfuls really want to do do fight smuggling? Just scare them away, and catch the odd ship you are fast enough to cloak disrupt and /nodock? Uncloaked smugglers would be basically asking to be caught by even trying.
If there was even a chance for a non cloaking smuggler, it might be worth making a run at the planet. Their complaint was, they can't stop you from docking on the planet, once you're gone, your'e gone and got away with it. That's true, game mechanics make it hard to catch up to someone once they slip by. That's why they have little choice but to camp. This just blocks more attempts than catches them I think. So I'd like to know, especially over a couple days this event runs, how many lawfuls are catching smugglers? If you're one or the other and reading this, I'd like you know where you caught them, or were caught, and what was the circumstance? Mostly, I'd like to hear from you if you are trying to catch smugglers (anytime) and aren't catching much.
This would make much more sense to me if there were one other point to try to dock at (on the back side of the planet) that also had to be patrolled. Now, I know the lawfuls might not like that option any better, but is it really better so see a ship on your scanner for a second, and then see it disappear because it knows your're waiting and decides to not even bother make a run? What's the point of marching into getting caught? Why even smuggle at that point? And why be satisfied with scaring away a smuggler, and not having a better chance to catch them?
As it stands, really the emphasis should be on catching smugglers as they enter the system. Currently, its easy to get in the system, and pointless to approach manhattan. But its not just manhattan, most planets, especially capital planets, should have a back door these days.
Now I know the lawfuls are thinking: but then we'd have even more of a hard time catching you! But what if we sweeten the deal. What if, inrp, docking on a planet without using its gate, be considered ILLEGAL. Meaning, you could try to make a run at the backside of Manhattan, BUT, it would become known that lawfuls could simply engage and destroy any vessel attempting to dock on the backside, regardless of their cargo or ID (except other police/military). So, you can try to run at the landing gate, and at worst get caught, fined, impounded, etc (lose the cargo) OR make a run at the planet, and risk destruction, but heighten your odds the approach is not pointless. Lawfuls who choose to patrol the backside might station themselves far enough out (10k) from the backside, and if they catch you within 10k of the backside, you get attacked immediately. This way, if lawfuls aren't going to block the gates AND jumpholes,they can at least surround manhattan, and divide up. Even cloaked ships trying to dock on the atmospheric point, could be disrupted and destroyed before making it. Even if they had the /nodock for the atmo point, it would make it a challenge to cover the right dock point.
This would also apply in many other circumstances as well, in other houses. Docking on the back of planets could be a thing, always inrp illegal, so even quasi's and lawfuls that smuggle may choose the option, and it makes patrols do more than just sit. Long term wise, it would be a new thing to try to catch people landing without using the docking ring, and report them/bounty them etc. Even though it would be possible, no house would tolerate unauthorized landings, and add something else to enforce over.
At least at that point, there would be more open ended chances on both sides, making attempts to run at the planet not totally ridiculous if lawful enforcers are around. So, I totally welcome input, criticism, and any experiences that seem relevant. I think it would make smuggling far more interesting, even during normal levels of activity. Please, admins/devs, consider it!
RE: Smuggling problems and possible options to help. - Goliath - 11-12-2017
Atmospheric entry points are dockable only by fighters Freighters.
RE: Smuggling problems and possible options to help. - mayu20 - 11-12-2017
Or, you know, don't sell at Manhattan ?! Rochester buys for almost the same price as Manhattan artifacts and cardi. Or whatever you are smuggling. There is also the cloaking device.
My only advice would be to buff prices, and maybe add a selling point for artifacts and cardi in Bretonia, nothing more.
RE: Smuggling problems and possible options to help. - Corile - 11-12-2017
There is zero profit to catching a smuggler.
There is a large amount of profit to delivering your cargo safely.
Therefore catching a smuggler should be easier than delivering your cargo safely.
RE: Smuggling problems and possible options to help. - SnakThree - 11-12-2017
Have you considered choosing second tier profit destination instead of those too lucrative 400/s capital planets that police should be patrolling 24/7? When I was smuggling Blood Diamonds for Hessians, I had no more than 4 or 5 lawful encounters during big number of trips. Two of them in Rheinland, where my ship and cargo was unlawful, and two/three in Liberty, where only my ship was unalwful. I escaped from BDM/MND. I got destroyed by RM. I payed 5th for illegal ship. Then payed to LPI for illegal ship as well. I made a billion credits and lost only one shipment, and suffered small setback of~15 milllions in profits.
RE: Smuggling problems and possible options to help. - Stoner_Steve - 11-12-2017
I have to agree with SnakThree, I've only ever used secondary sell points for smuggling and I've only been caught a handful of times.
The point of the high Manhattan sell-point is to lure bad greedy smugglers out into the open. After all what good is having the junkers if we don't make them wash our cargo.
RE: Smuggling problems and possible options to help. - Walligig - 11-12-2017
Sometime I wish I had you guy's luck. Every time I try to smuggle to Manhatten I usually never see LPI or Navy and when I do they completely ignore me. It kind of takes away the fun of smuggling if there is no danger
RE: Smuggling problems and possible options to help. - Teresa Brooks - 11-12-2017
How to smuggle 101:
Log a PvP ship in NY
Kill the lawfuls
Switch back to your smuggler
Go to NY uninterrupted
PROFIT
(Warning: May result in ganking)
Alternately, if nobody has /nodock, just brazen it out. Transports are only out-thrust in open space by snubs, and you have a minimum of 15 seconds life expectancy if it's a lolwut who silent engages.
Liberty doesn't bother to FR5 ANYONE anymore, so you're entirely free of RP consequences.
RE: Smuggling problems and possible options to help. - Binski - 11-12-2017
Well personally I'm not concerned with my profits that much. But for instance, there is a bonus now on Artis/Cardi for MANHATTAN so that was an important example. Most of the time, I don't bother even try. But really, its set up so there's not really much incentive to try normally. I just don't think that avoiding the option altogether should always seem like the only sane choice. I can't remember the last time I was caught. But that's because the risk for the higher sell point isn't worth trying, so catching smugglers doesn't happen as much because we all just prefer to sell at the 2nd tier points.
As for the atmo points taking freighters only...I'm sure that's just a matter of numbers being adjusted to fix that.
And personally, smuggling while cloaked, unless you're military/intel...seems op even to me and I support the use of cloaks for pretty much everything. Sure go ahead, but I am not buying a transport cloak just to increase my chances of making it manhattan during heightened periods of activity.
If i were out catching smugglers, I'd hunt them out away from the planet. If I wanted to only deter a smuggler or smuggling operation inrp, where it doest matter if you catch them, stopping them is most important...you can just park and fly your flag and most won't even try to make it past you. They just log and come back when its easier. Its not just smuggling, any kind of supply in dangerous territory is the same. I think if there were 2 dock options for planets, it would actually encourage more attempts to smuggle WHILE police/navy are still visibly active. Which then could generate more anti-smuggler player activity, etc etc.
Trust me, if I was worried about profit, I wouldn't smuggle at all, I'd just ship legal cargo, in a legal neutral transport, only along trade lanes, to lawful destinations, in a 5k'er (which I don't).
I don't even go for smugglers, I'm the smuggler. But I see a problem where we don't really try, and they don't get much smuggling traffic to police because we don't try for the harder points. If they switch to the lesser points, we can go the high points. The option to not even bother would still be there. But as far as I'm concerned, I won't fly into guaranteed loss. I just might try though if I had a chance higher than 0 to make it.
I suggested this to sort of help both sides. I actually did try to fly to man today, and an LPI was there. So I went to the lesser sell point of Rochester. I just couldn't help but think, was the point of the extra sell bonus to generate more smuggling traffic TO AVOID manhattan and be deterred without interaction? What did that LPI get out of it? Nothing. But should I also fly face first into an arrest? Not really. So...should he not camp? Should I fly in knowing I'll be fined, or arrested inrp, and lose my cargo/profit just to let him have it? Or would adding an alt dock point make running at it not completely pointless? At this point I guess I'm just sayin!
RE: Smuggling problems and possible options to help. - Sonoshee - 11-14-2017
With that amount of players almost any trade\smuggle\mining venture is 100% profitable, why bother anything? I also think that selling stuff not directly to capital planet is a way to go as well since then police would have to actually patrol the wilds and not just sit on top of docking ring - which is also good I suppose. But in 99% they won't go anywhere so you're safe to smuggle almost entirely with something like 5000 transport.