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+--- Thread: Jumphole Overhaul (/showthread.php?tid=157354)
RE: Jumphole Overhaul - Karlotta - 02-04-2018
I edited the OP in the hope to make things more understandable.
Would be helpful if the people who expressed general agreement or general disagreement gave actionable examples and suggestions.
RE: Jumphole Overhaul - Karlotta - 02-05-2018
From my perspective the proposed map is nearly finished.
It would be cool if everyone (including those who want this change but think it has 0 chances of being implemented by the devs, and also those who DON'T want something changed the way I'm changed it) took a look at it and commented on changes they want or don't want. I'm saying this because several people said they would love to see the change but think the devs wont do it anyway.
I edited the OP to address several concerns that were expressed in the thread, so please read it again if you expressed concerns earlier.
There are a few things I'm still unsure about:
-Because of the war situation in Leeds, the single-highway from Liberty and Bretonia to Gallia and the Taus needs alternatives for smugglers and other travelers. Coronado and Newcastle kind of rival each other as "alternative chokepoint/hub". I tend to favor Coronao and would like to remove connections from Newcastle and add them to Coronado (for example the Manchester and Tau-31 ones) for several reasons: 1. Coronado is a more "interesting" and better designed system. 2. The CR should have more connections to the Taus and have a front with Gallia for "historical" reasons. Would be nice if someone who plays in that region a lot said something about that.
-The smuggling route of artifacts to liberty got made longer because I removed the o55 to gamma and the munche-Xi connections in order to channel smugglers through more active systems and choke points in the omegas. That can partially be resolved by making certain jump holes closer to each other. Would be good if someone experienced in artifact smuggle comments on that.
I'm also not at all sure about the smuggling connnections to Gallia. Right now I'm thinking that the only thing that will help Gallia become more active is if the Outcast, Bretonians, and CR get Gallia added to their ZOI. But that's another can of worms (comments about that still welcome though).
RE: Jumphole Overhaul - Laura C. - 02-05-2018
I did not went any deeper into this, just comment regarding what is mentioned in the last post - removing Munich-Xi connection is bad idea, it was added to help both Corsair and Rheinland activity by allowing them to more quickly and easily raid each other. This change would negatively affect activity which ocasionally happens there.
RE: Jumphole Overhaul - Enkidu - 02-06-2018
(02-05-2018, 11:32 PM)Laura C. Wrote: I did not went any deeper into this, just comment regarding what is mentioned in the last post - removing Munich-Xi connection is bad idea, it was added to help both Corsair and Rheinland activity by allowing them to more quickly and easily raid each other. This change would negatively affect activity which ocasionally happens there.
Agreed. In addition, the Bremen/New Hampshire connection actually does get used in Harmony, Unioner, Hellfire, Bundschuh, and occasional BDM events. Also, Gallia doesn't need less jump hole connections.
Koeln's connection to the Hessian guard omega has been used quite often for Unioner and Hessian raids and counter-raids. Its connection to hamburg is a useful smuggling bottleneck. Smugglers in Rheinland area already easily interruptible due to a number of choke points - it's currently perfectly balanced. If you change that dynamic smuggling will get too darned hard to do in Rheinland without bringing an escort raid as large as as the convoy itself - which isn't achievable for most groups.
That's just picking out problems in the neck of the woods I understand. I'm sure others have concerns in their own regions. Whilst some changes appear positive, this brute-force approach to centralisation won't work.
RE: Jumphole Overhaul - Karlotta - 02-11-2018
Thanks Laura and Taeni. For both your comments, I think that removing activity in areas with already low activity will not eliminate that activity from the server, but instead move it to and re-enforce activity in other a little more active areas.
I removed the Xi-Munich connection for 4 reasons:
1. Felt weird to have Gamma so closely connected to Berlin (closer than house capitals are connected to each other)
2. To create less alternative smuggle/trade routes so trade/smuggle is focused into less remote areas.
3. To isolate/drain Xi
4. To isolate/drain Munich
If the Artifact trade is made too difficult and not worth it because of it, do you think one or both of these solutions would be better than re-linking Xi and Munich:
1. Buff the artifact smuggle profit, to compensate for the higher risk and possibly longer route.
2. Add/restore other links that are closer to active places, like restore the gamma-55-Dresden lanes or another alternative route
About the Bremen/Hampshire and Koeln-o54 connection, I realize that removing such connections will inconvenience some people, but the gain would be that other people will benefit from seeing more people to interact with along the highways. So, instead of re-storing the fast connections which let people avoid other routes, are there compromise solutions which still lead you closer to the "highways", and still achieve the goal of isolating/draining the "backwater" places like koeln, Bremen, New Hampshire, Munich, etc?
For example: a JH connection between hamburg and Stuttgart, and/or Virginia and bering?
RE: Jumphole Overhaul - Omicron - 02-11-2018
Speaking of Omicron theatre, personally I would...
Remove Minor-Sigma connection
Remove Minor-Rho connection
Keep Tohoku-Epsilon, rather than Mu-Tohoku
very much approve of Alaska-Minor
It would streamline the flow and make more encounters as it slowly pours people towards more concetrated central point around Omicron Minor without some back alley shortcuts that bypass possible activity centers entirely.
RE: Jumphole Overhaul - Karlotta - 02-13-2018
(02-11-2018, 01:46 AM)Omicron Wrote: Speaking of Omicron theatre, personally I would...
Remove Minor-Sigma connection
Remove Minor-Rho connection
Keep Tohoku-Epsilon, rather than Mu-Tohoku
very much approve of Alaska-Minor
It would streamline the flow and make more encounters as it slowly pours people towards more concetrated central point around Omicron Minor without some back alley shortcuts that bypass possible activity centers entirely.
I'm reluctant to remove the Minor-Rho connection because that would leave only 1 system attached to Rho, which would make it possible to completely block the whole system by blocking only one jump hole. Maybe one of the Rho's connections could be attached to another alternative than minor, but I think attaching minor is best because it gives better access to the nomad worlds. Probably the people who have bases in Rho (Core) should comment on that too.
About Mu and Epsilon, I would prefer another alternative for the following reason: Mu seems to be a fortified stronghold of a single faction (Order), which makes it a bad system for others to travel through. So like Gamma, there should be routes around it. Mu is possibly one system that actually WOULD make sense to have only one single exit and entry, in the mine field. The following would make it easier for outcasts to Travel to delta without annoying nomads or Order too much:
![[Image: sOoI9Ls.png]](https://i.imgur.com/sOoI9Ls.png)
RE: Jumphole Overhaul - Lythrilux - 02-13-2018
I'd fuse Mu and Epsilon. Epsilon is practically a buffer system at this point and isn't needed. Mu would link to Tohoku.
Put Minor out of the way generally speaking and leave it to exist as just a lore piece/system. Doesn't really matter what connections it has, as long as it doesn't obstruct things like it does now (it's awful to interact in).
Minor links to Mu, Major, Delta.
Have Omicron Sigma link with Iota, Delta, Rho, Mu, Sigma-17 and Alaska.
Replace the Rho-Minor connection with a Rho-Omega-55 connection.
put capetown in omicron sigma
You actually create two systems where House IDs can partake in interaction (Kusari and Liberty). These extra IDs would hopefully create even more activity.
Generally, the Omicrons need as many links as possible to get players to places to quickly interact. Before the Omicron update, there were plenty of good links that could generally speaking transport you around the region quickly and efficiently. Post Omicron Update, most of these went away for 'bottlenecks' that just fail to work. With this proposal, I'm trying to recreate Omicron links before that update.
Lastly, a Rho-Omega connection is crucial to enabling The Core to actually help with activity generation there. The Omegas are half of their ZoI.
Any jump holes that have ship class restrictions are lifted to allow all ship classes. At the most, restrict transports. Caps are the bread and butter of the Edge Worlds.
RE: Jumphole Overhaul - Karlotta - 02-13-2018
(02-13-2018, 01:30 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: I'd fuse Mu and Epsilon. Epsilon is practically a buffer system at this point and isn't needed. Mu would link to Tohoku.
Put Minor out of the way generally speaking and leave it to exist as just a lore piece/system. Doesn't really matter what connections it has, as long as it doesn't obstruct things like it does now (it's awful to interact in).
Minor links to Mu, Major, Delta.
Have Omicron Sigma link with Iota, Delta, Rho, Mu, Sigma-17 and Alaska.
Replace the Rho-Minor connection with a Rho-Omega-55 connection.
put capetown in omicron sigma
You actually create two systems where House IDs can partake in interaction (Kusari and Liberty). These extra IDs would hopefully create even more activity.
Generally, the Omicrons need as many links as possible to get players to places to quickly interact. Before the Omicron update, there were plenty of good links that could generally speaking transport you around the region quickly and efficiently. Post Omicron Update, most of these went away for 'bottlenecks' that just fail to work. With this proposal, I'm trying to recreate Omicron links before that update.
Lastly, a Rho-Omega connection is crucial to enabling The Core to actually help with activity generation there. The Omegas are half of their ZoI.
Any jump holes that have ship class restrictions are lifted to allow all ship classes. At the most, restrict transports. Caps are the bread and butter of the Edge Worlds.
I don't want to merge or remove any systems so a large positive change is made as soon as possible with as little work as possible. Bases can be moved, systems merged or removed, and trade prices can always be re-balanced afterwards.
About the other changes you suggested: A Rho-55 link would make Rho a fast-travel route for every faction in the omicronw. I don't know if you suggested it for that reason, but making strongholds of aggressive factions of like Core, Order, or Corsairs a bottleneck of fast-travel route is a really terrible idea because of realism, drama, and meta/power-gaming. Instead these factions can have their strongholds close to other systems which are fast travel hubs where they can "hunt" among the large variety of factions that populated those systems, and where they are less predictable for people who check the player list before they enter a system: If there are many different factions present in a "bottleneck", people can risk entering them even if there are enemies present, because those enemies are likely to be busy with someone else.
So instead of Rho-55, how about attaching rho to theta instead of minor? I could also re-attach gamma and theta to o55, since people asked for more alternative smuggle routes.
RE: Jumphole Overhaul - Lythrilux - 02-13-2018
I stated the reason for my Rho-55 proposal; but yeah, it's basically for fast travel. Mainly for the benefit of the Core ID as it can allow them to reach their ZoI more easily and create activity there.
I don't really see how your point about drama/meta/power gaming etc would be a result of that though. Look at the Sigma-15 connection to Rho for example. It's also not as if the only way into the Omicrons from O-55 would be Rho (O-55 already connects to Theta and Gamma). I do disagree with bottlenecking strongholds though - it was a mistake the Omicron update made when it first came out. That got rectified, mostly afaik.