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+--- Thread: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs (/showthread.php?tid=158361)
Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs - Lythrilux - 02-22-2018
It's time to stop.
Examples such as this and this need to stop.
The Omicrons aren't conn where you can bring any random capital ships you like to mindlessly mingle. It makes no sense no matter what angle you look at it from. Why is a Council capital ship moving so far away from Council space to the Omicrons? How would Council High Command react, let alone approve this in the first place? Swap Council with any other non-Omicron faction and it's still unjustifiable.
This kind of thing keeps happening and it's really tiresome. Whether it be a Council cap, a RM BS, a Lib Dread etc it's stupid. These factions can't even use their IDs there. And it just looks so horribly out of place. Why can't these people just do the sensible thing and buy a Capital+ID combo of a faction that can actually interact and contribute conductively to regional activity?
People will tell me "oh but you can just shoot them!" It's beyond the point and doesn't make it any less wrong.
The Core indie ID has a line that locks it's capitals to ZoI and it works splendidly. Gone are the days of indie Makos rolling into New York under the excuse of "exploring" or whatever nonsense. There's no reason why such a change wouldn't be just as effective with every other ID. Foreign caps are illegal in all the 5 Houses anyway. Let Official factions still have the privilege of taking their caps everywhere.
I'm really tired of people using the Omicrons as a cooking basin for their half-baked cookie-cutter defection SRPs that expand no further than beyond "we r here to fight teh nomads XD". Contribute to the region positively instead. If you don't want to do that, at least keep your foreign caps where they should be, and contribute to activity there instead.
EDIT: Okay, perhaps allow Intelligence factions to take Cruisers out of their ZoI at most still.
Also, this change wouldn't affect IDs like Zoners and Order who already have specific lines to control their Cap usage as they don't have ZoI.
(02-23-2018, 01:32 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: Look, everyone. This suggested change has solid proof that it works without pushing away newbies (the poor helpless newbies!), killing the mod or destroying all that is good and reducing activity. It's not going to create a million new sanctions as if post-change all our new members will suddenly be unable to read. People need to stop being so emotional and hysterical and look at the facts. If it works with The Core and Order IDs, and has lead to the creation of many SRPs where players have proven they can be trusted to use those Capitals outside of ZoI, then it can work for all IDs. The end result can only be beneficial.
And to reiterate this because people don't read: this change won't affect the Zoner ID, or any ID that doesn't have a stated ZoI. This change is also about IDs, not the ships themselves. It would be represented as an ID line, not a rule.
EDIT:
This is now more relevant than ever now with the issue of every flavour of cap under the rainbow coming to Omicron Delta to farm Nomads out of their ZoI. Quite clearly, people are seeing the lack of restriction and using it as an excuse to justify ridiculous ship/ID/zoi combinations in ways that break the roleplay environment.
To recap the proposals in this thread:
My proposal: add a line to all IDs, like the Core/Coalition/Order IDs, where caps cannot be taken out of ZoI with an exception for official factions and perhaps intelligence groups.
Thyrzul's proposal:
(03-02-2018, 02:10 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:We already have conditional PvP Death penalties, if you die in a contested system on a non-generic character with ZoI in the system, the penalty is only 30 minutes, not 2 hours. There is a notification of such in green every time you enter one of those systems. This is to the detriment of local groups, as well as roleplay in the region.
Two days for an ooZoI PvP Death penalty sounds good, and regional application sounds interesting as well, though I'll keep staying away from discussing specific cases, like Order caps. (Maybe except Zoner caps in house space, but that's for an other thread...)
And lastly Alex suggested on Discord that a rule be added to not allow missions being taken outside of ZoI.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence - Thyrzul - 02-22-2018
(02-22-2018, 02:06 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Why is a Council capital ship moving so far away from Council space to the Omicrons? How would Council High Command react, let alone approve this in the first place?
Bored of Liberty or Bretonia perhaps? I guess you can deduce the answer to the second question from those threads as well.
I approve this idea.
I approve this idea.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence - Sombs - 02-22-2018
No. Don't restrict gameplay more than necessary. Discovery survived until today with capitals being able to leave the ZoI. This is very much the border where I say no. RP and immersion always have highest priority for me, but limiting gameplay because someone is annoyed, and therefore limiting what people can do with assets that have taken days to grind, is pretty scummy. Enforce your laws if you feel the need to get rid of them, or just ignore them. It's a game and those guys try to have fun without harming anyone - as long as they play along the rules.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence - Lythrilux - 02-22-2018
(02-22-2018, 02:18 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: No. Don't restrict gameplay more than necessary. Discovery survived until today with capitals being able to leave the ZoI. This is very much the border where I say no. RP and immersion always have highest priority for me, but limiting gameplay because someone is annoyed, and therefore limiting what people can do with assets that have taken days to grind, is pretty scummy. Enforce your laws if you feel the need to get rid of them, or just ignore them. It's a game and those guys try to have fun without harming anyone - as long as they play along the rules.
How is it restricting gameplay? These people can't use their IDs there. Unless you think people baiting is conductive to gameplay.
And how is it worse for them to use a regional ID instead?
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence - Sombs - 02-22-2018
MRG wouldn't have been able to bring their fleet to Delta if it was restricted.
Just face it. Some people don't enjoy playing snubs and prefer playing capitals. Look at all the people around here who constantly complain that we're not at 200/200 times anymore. If people bait, they can get sanctioned for it - best example is Shelco's GMG CD'ing my Gaian in Bretonia for ten minutes. Let those people have PvE or do research or engage nomads - you don't need any ZoI line to do any of those. You should encourage possible RP encounters and not restrict stuff because some lolwuts annoy you. Just as you will always find something to get annoyed about, they will find ways to annoy you. No matter whether on a Council Battleship, a Nephilim or a Ranseur.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence - Nodoka Hanamura - 02-22-2018
(02-22-2018, 02:18 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: No. Don't restrict gameplay more than necessary. Discovery survived until today with capitals being able to leave the ZoI. This is very much the border where I say no. RP and immersion always have highest priority for me, but limiting gameplay because someone is annoyed, and therefore limiting what people can do with assets that have taken days to grind, is pretty scummy. Enforce your laws if you feel the need to get rid of them, or just ignore them. It's a game and those guys try to have fun without harming anyone - as long as they play along the rules.
I have to side with sombs. I already feel the game's IDs are restricted fine. ZoIs shouldn't be considered in terms of restriction for capitals, especially with changing tides of war across the inRP world. That and this cannot be enforced with SRP IDs, as their ZoIs are constantly changing with their characters, not to mention all SRP IDs in game are generic IDs that just say "Go to the forum thread for this ship's ID." Pretty sure FLHook can't parse that crap without it being in the game.
(02-22-2018, 02:24 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: MRG wouldn't have been able to bring their fleet to Delta if it was restricted.This. Glass houses, Lyth.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence - Thyrzul - 02-22-2018
(02-22-2018, 02:18 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: It's a game and those guys try to have fun without harming anyone
And then here I am being stormed by comms left and right about wtf one of our (greatest) warships is doing in allied house space without permission and why are they attacking their supposed allies. So much for "without harming anyone". Maybe it's fun for them, it's not that fun for me, but thanks for asking.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence - Sombs - 02-22-2018
Why would you care? You can't control indies and people shouldn't pretend as if that was the case. Look at it from this perspective:
If you limit them to ZoI and they leave the ZoI - they probably get reported.
If you don't limit them to ZoI and they leave it - then they can either play along the rules or do something that can get them reported.
You take away one step here, allowing people to prove they are not lolwuts.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence - Goliath - 02-22-2018
I don't think you can restrict the roleplay with this laughable reason.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence - Reeves - 02-22-2018
Capital ships are faction equipment and should therefore be bound by the respective faction ID rules. I see no reason why someone who's desperate to fly a cap can't make an indie core or order ship in order to be involved in the inevitable delta drama. I personally think it'll give certain regions an actual way to stir activity.
Yes having a big ship is fun, but for the love of God it should at least make some amount of sense. You don't see Battleship Harmony in Omicron Delta because it's being responsibly played and restricted to a zone. Have your toys, nobody's taking them away, but they should all remain in their respective places.