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+--- Thread: Player Owned Bases (/showthread.php?tid=159051)
RE: Player Owned Bases - Jeuge - 06-01-2020
(06-01-2020, 11:11 AM)Paddy. Wrote: You can earn enough for a basic Battleship in about - what - 10-15hours trading.
It takes at a guess... what... 120 - 150 hours to get a base supplied to a basic Core 3.
See the problem? See why people are upset and others see the injustice?
Again, you forgot something, experience, yes in 15 hours you can get a BS with a CAU 8 ect ect, but if you fly for the first time with it, you won't want anything in fights.
and the level of training, mastery, technique, tactics, I'm sure you're way beyond the time to build a Pob
also the people who spend 150 hours building a Pob, I want to tell you "why are you in Discovery" ?
RE: Player Owned Bases - St.Denis - 06-01-2020
This argument is just going round and round in permanent circles.
Both sides will be able to find things to justify their arguments. Some people just want to have their fun, regardless of anybody else. Neither side is likely to change the other's mind. It is human nature.
Quote:It takes at a guess... what... 120 - 150 hours to get a base supplied to a basic Core 3.
Based on a Post I did yesterday:
https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=80349&pid=2166197#pid2166197
Quote:After 15 days of work, you now have a fully healed Core 1 Base c/w Shield and Storage.
Total trips: 133 x 5kers (not including FOW and assuming your 5ker has exactly 5k of free space).
If you said, as an average, each trip took 15 minutes, then time to reach this point would be just over 33 hours.
Quote:To get a fully healed Core 2 Base c/w Shield and 1 Storage can take:Based on 15 minute round trips, this equates to 68 hours.
271 x 5k trips and a cost of 354.7 million.
If you care to work it out, you can get to the figure required to get to a Core 3 with every space taken up as Storage.
More than likely the 15 minutes, used as basic figure, is very low compared to the actual (depending on location of the Base).
These times does not include the regular need for FOW and Repair Materials to compensate for the Wear &Tear a Base suffers.
A lot of arguments use 'smoke and mirrors' (as does mine above). This is based on current requirements for Base Building. I am almost certain that Eldorado, and quite possibly Goldgiest, were built before the huge increase in hps given to POBs. But there again, they have had years of supplying FOW and RMs.
Talking about 'smoke and mirrors':
Quote:One battleship is ~500m, it's like 5 hours of nonstop trade without outcome to piracy, miners, etc. Then CAU8 (CAU6 can work too but you should be more durable). It's about 900M, what's 9-10 hours more without outcome. Then siege turrets, for maximal DPS. Every siege turret is 525M credits, you need at least 2 for optimal DPS, it's 1,05B. ~10 hours of trading more. Not to say about additional equipment like docking modules for snubs repairs, jump drive for siege mobility, battleship scanner for long-range scanning (it's about 8K, iirc) and of course this is only "pure siege" battleship that has only specialization. It costs more than the entire core construction or even two. Thus, you are wrong in that case, Paddy. Sieges are expensive for both sides.
Very few BSs are built purely for sieges. They already exist for PvP. Therefore the cost to siege a Base is, in most cases, TIME.
As for Siege Turrets, they may be 'bought' or more than likely 'hired' or 'borrowed' from those that have them. Once the siege is over, they go back in to storage or returned to the owner. Also the 'special' Siege Guns are not needed, they just make the end game somewhat quicker.
Core 1 Base with all 3 RMs will regenerate 1.08 million hps an hour.
Core 2 Base with all 3 RMs will regenerate 2.16 million hps an hour.
Core 3 Base with all 3 RMs will regenerate 3.24 million hps an hour.
Core 4 Base with all 3 RMs will regenerate 4.32 million hps an hour.
If you work it out 5 GBs can quite easily damage a Base by overcoming the repair rate of the Base. Granted it will take a lot longer than turning up with 10 Battleships.
Quote:They just need to connect and defend their *****. Your Pob's under attack, you defend it.Every advantage is with the people sieging a Base. They can agree when to meet again to continue the attack. The Defenders, unlike their RL counterparts, aren't there 24 hours a day. Therefore, the Defenders have to be reactive, not proactive. It takes time for the Defenders to stop what they are doing, inRL, and log in. During this time, the Attackers are hammering the Base. Also, it is unlikely that all the Defenders will be able to turn up, for one reason or other. So, the Defenders find themselves outnumbered and either die horribly or log off.
There have been some Attack Declarations that have been an excuse for a Fight. The Attackers turn up, fire a few shots at the Base and wait for the Defenders to organise and turn up. Fight ensues, everyone is happy. If the Attackers win, they go back home and talk about how good they were. Losers cry to themselves and tell each other how they will do better next time.
It won't save the Bases already lost, nor quite possibly the ones next on the list, but the Devs have said they are looking at the damage vs repair rate + the whole dynamics of Base sieges. Patience and cool tempers are needed in the meantime. I am quite sure, going on previous decisions, there will be a whole plethora of arguments from both sides of the divide.
RE: Player Owned Bases - Karlotta - 06-01-2020
(06-01-2020, 12:04 PM)Jeuge Wrote: also the people who spend 150 hours building a Pob, I want to tell you "why are you in Discovery" ?
The obvious and honest answer to that is "because we enjoy building virtual castles in virtual worlds and making up stories around them".
Ask that question to someone who spent 150 hours kicking in other people's virtual castles and gloating about it. They actually exist. I don't think you'll get an honest answer, because the honest answer is extremely sad.
RE: Player Owned Bases - Jeuge - 06-01-2020
(06-01-2020, 01:33 PM)Karlotta Wrote:(06-01-2020, 12:04 PM)Jeuge Wrote: also the people who spend 150 hours building a Pob, I want to tell you "why are you in Discovery" ?
The obvious and honest answer to that is "because we enjoy building virtual castles in virtual worlds and making up stories around them".
Ask that question to someone who spent 150 hours kicking in other people's virtual castles and gloating about it. They actually exist. I don't think you'll get an honest answer, because the honest answer is extremely sad.
to build castles, I suggest Minecraft.
RE: Player Owned Bases - Karlotta - 06-02-2020
Is recommending that people play other games really helpful to this game at this point?
That seems like very 4.85, when you couldnt log on because of player number.
RE: Player Owned Bases - Sniper - 06-02-2020
(06-01-2020, 12:04 PM)Jeuge Wrote:(06-01-2020, 11:11 AM)Paddy. Wrote: You can earn enough for a basic Battleship in about - what - 10-15hours trading.
It takes at a guess... what... 120 - 150 hours to get a base supplied to a basic Core 3.
See the problem? See why people are upset and others see the injustice?
Again, you forgot something, experience, yes in 15 hours you can get a BS with a CAU 8 ect ect, but if you fly for the first time with it, you won't want anything in fights.
and the level of training, mastery, technique, tactics, I'm sure you're way beyond the time to build a Pob
also the people who spend 150 hours building a Pob, I want to tell you "why are you in Discovery" ?
I bought a 'kirk, my first big Cap ship, equipped it for a battle and found it easy to shoot a PoB. No training is necessary to stand back and push a button, over, and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Why would Paddy or anyone like to RP PoB's? Because they love it! Not everyone is a raging testosterone infused pew-pew junkie.
Doesn't negate what she said... "See the problem? See why people are upset and others see the injustice?"
RE: Player Owned Bases - Busy Miner - 06-02-2020
(06-01-2020, 06:57 AM)Saronsen Wrote: dont build your base where it cant be easily defended/where it can be easily attacked
Unfortunately you can't build bases around NPC structures anymore, that is at least what most house laws state. 10-15k is the usual distance, so basically you are always on your own.
(06-01-2020, 11:06 AM)Lucas Wrote: Building a PoB has always come with the risk of people being able to destroy them for whatever reason they consider sufficient.
If you don't like that, don't build a PoB. Or build it in a safer location. There is a reason for stations such as Siloso being sieged, while other stations like the one infront of Manhatten literally being untouched for eons. One might say that it is because it does not bother anyone (which is false), but in reality it is just the fact that a properly placed PoB is pretty much impossible to destroy unless you can field absurd amounts of players.
But normally you can't just place a POB beside some NPC structure anymore, 10-15k is usually minimum according to most house-laws. So you are usually on your own.
see above statement.
(06-01-2020, 12:04 PM)Jeuge Wrote: ....people who spend 150 hours building a Pob, I want to tell you "why are you in Discovery" ?
Because this is an RP server, and trading and constructing is part of the RP. I could tell all those trigger happy pilots out there that are only here for shooting at stuff: "why are you in Discovery"?
PS: Shooting at a sitting duck aka POB doesn't require any battleship-skills.
RE: Player Owned Bases - Hubjump - 06-02-2020
St.Denis I love you man, no homo. Great response.
Also I want to put this out there.
POBs aren't built to be destroyed. They're tools that just happen to be destructible. You don't build a POB to have it explode needlessly. You build a POB to store or produce something. But the only mind set I see coming from the other side of the argument is the warped idea that POBs are good for nothing but being besieged and so hold no other value than to explode. So not only is the owner being cucked out of the time put into maintaining the POB but also the time put into upgrading and producing items and modules.
RE: Player Owned Bases - Thyrzul - 06-02-2020
The primary imbalance I see between owners and besiegers is the requirement of continuous maintenance of a base even when it's not besieged. The resulting asymmetry can greatly vary the difference in required cost and effort investment on each side of a siege on a case by case basis and the overall cumulated costs slowly but steadily increase over time for the owners.
Possible solution: Remove wear & tear damage.
Possible problem arising from that solution: abandoned bases remain.
Yeah, well, someone sometime put some effort into creating that base, even if later abandoned it. Then it either causes enough problems for someone else to similarly put effort into its removal, or not.
Or if it remains a constant extra but unnecessary strain on server load: apply a timer of N days, after which W&T is reinstated at a higher rate, the timer resettable through logging in to a base.
Thoughts?
Possible solution: Remove wear & tear damage.
Possible problem arising from that solution: abandoned bases remain.
Yeah, well, someone sometime put some effort into creating that base, even if later abandoned it. Then it either causes enough problems for someone else to similarly put effort into its removal, or not.
Or if it remains a constant extra but unnecessary strain on server load: apply a timer of N days, after which W&T is reinstated at a higher rate, the timer resettable through logging in to a base.
Thoughts?
RE: Player Owned Bases - SwiftWing - 06-02-2020
I have an Idea that might work, to keep this from Getting out of hand, Have only One thread that all Base attacks go in, and a GM or GM's will manage it, And remove Old Post and post that have nothing to do with the Current POST Thread. and Allow or Dis-Allow a base attack, I think that there needs to be Proof that a POB has broken some kind of Rule. And a GM would go over the Evidence and Approve it if there is enough Proof, after Time has passed to Contact the POB Owner, and the Owner Given a chance to Solve the Problem in some way.
If the base is at least Core level 2, Or level 1 that's been there for some time and being used by all Like a Mining base that helps players and the Server, they should be given a chance. Now if a base pops up with no Permissions or anything a fly by night base. then it is fair game, by Standard rules in place now.
if you have not noticed we would be calling in a Referee, But mainly there needs to be time and a Honest effort to contact the owner and at least give them some way to make amends, Change IFF's or stop what ever they are doing.
There needs to be a Forum Listing of all POB Owners if they would like a chance to settle things before there base could be attacked.
But since a Level 2 base and above takes so many hours to Build up and daily Maintenance, To be fair when a BS is Destroyed Boom Hit Respawn, they have nothing to lose.
I don't care who you are, if you spend months or Years keeping a base up to make the game better and some Joker just decides to blow it up. I can't imagine anyone not getting Pissed over it.
The Problem really is Some people get off on Making trouble and hurting others, They want the Greeff of others. and they will make up anything to be able to do this, and I hope that this Idea works cause a GM could Sanction or Bann Players that only get onto cause trouble. and if this thread was set up and a Good GM kept an eye on things. then he could put a stop to players just making things up just so they could go around and Kill bases for there Jollys.
I hope that this is received by all as a Possibility and we can find something along these lines to work with. at least it would be a lot more fair than whats going on now.
Maybe we can at least try this Idea, until we find something better that comes along. at least we want be losing Long time players. Because I've seen this before where Players come to a server and rase Holy Hell tell they get banned from the server a week or two later. all the people that they gave the hell to had bad feelings about it all, and some left and never came back. and they had been on the server almost every day for years. and a GM could put a stop to bad players if he is paying attention to whats going on.
It should be a lot harder to just write something and go kill a base. The GM should look if the base is being heavily used by a Lot of players the GM should also take that into consideration.
Thanks so very much for everyone that took the time to read this. God Bless you all.