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+--- Thread: Remove weapon platforms from POB (/showthread.php?tid=159368)
RE: Remove weapon platforms from POB - Durandal - 11-02-2019
Weapon platforms don't deter sieges - they thing they're supposed to do.
They do deter standard gameplay - the thing they're not supposed to do.
In an ideal world with an engine we had the source code to, there are probably better solutions than removing them outright. Presently, I'm not convinced there are. Going to drop some facts in this thread:
- A single fighter set to cruise in a circle around a POB can completely disrupt the platforms as long as they're all aggro'd first before the battleships arrive. We currently do not have hook level access to weight target selection so that heavier ship classes are prioritized.
- AoE Solutions such as cruise disruptor platforms would affect all parties, including the defenders.
- Switching them over to pulse weapons that would be less disruptive to typical gameplay around POBs would restore the powercore of the sieging battleships via the pulse bug, effectively assisting the attackers instead.
- While it still wouldn't make them immune to their fire being drawn, balance magicking the platforms so that they can only harm caps would at least cause them to interfere less with regular gameplay, right? Wrong. Balance magic does not function on NPC weapons.
I really don't see a better solution than removing them entirely at this time, especially with the potential benefits to server load. No weapon platforms have ever impeded a concerted siege effort, but they have caused a lot of grief over the years.
RE: Remove weapon platforms from POB - Kalhmera - 11-02-2019
If you have enough turrets they deter a seige I'm being honest here you clearly dont play this game. I seen sieges fail because of turret placement. Removing turrets and not giving pobs an alternative is pretty cancer. If you remove it I expect to see an extreme buff in HP or some other way to defend our bases.
RE: Remove weapon platforms from POB - AI Daoine Saoirse - 11-02-2019
Why not simply beef up the turrets on a POB and scrap platforms?
RE: Remove weapon platforms from POB - Spectre - 11-02-2019
- Make platforms invincible like they used to be, making Repair ships work to keep their caps alive and providing a use for platforms in sieges past just being a nuisance.
- Make platforms only attack people who have shot the base, and ignore literally everyone else except those specifically on the block list (or maybe just everyone entirely).
I'd also like to point out that toxic gameplay is reciprocated. People who claim people are toxic are often toxic in their own right. Running to a PoB won't change any of that. At least if the platforms only attack folks who shoot the PoB, it can be made an offense or something for people to report for degrading behavior.
Without platforms, you're relying on the tiny community to defend something that already has a massive disadvantage against repair ships.
EDIT: If I'm dumb and none of that is possible, then ignore me.
RE: Remove weapon platforms from POB - Durandal - 11-02-2019
None of the solutions proposed resolve any of the issues I've pointed out in my post.
RE: Remove weapon platforms from POB - Reeves - 11-02-2019
Just remove platforms. That, or I'll have to find ingenuous ways to protest them as being the bad idea that they are. I don't mind them being kept as is, but if I have to deal with the nuisance they pose then so does everyone else. It's bad enough that places like Fort Bush spawn the most lethal NPC patrols possible, but add to that the presence of cerb platforms and you have a recipe for annoying. Sieging in places like that is deterred by strong lawful counterattack, not platforms that a cap can out-range anyway. The only people that end up deterred are people like me being forced to fight or interact in the vicinity of them.
Should I just start using platforms to kill people for me? I recall doing this to great effect when Harmony locked down Bering with more platforms than they had members, so much so that chasing a Junker to the Freeport was often more fatal for the Junker than it ever was for me. Though I will admit that it's funny how certain people who were opposed to platforms then are in support of them now.. I'd say that it seems hypocritical but I'm controversial enough already.
RE: Remove weapon platforms from POB - Charo - 11-02-2019
(11-02-2019, 05:45 AM)Kalhmera Wrote: If you have enough turrets they deter a seige I'm being honest here you clearly dont play this game. I seen sieges fail because of turret placement. Removing turrets and not giving pobs an alternative is pretty cancer. If you remove it I expect to see an extreme buff in HP or some other way to defend our bases.
Tell that to the IMG :^)
I would like to see platforms dropped in favor of something else to be honest. They're a pain to build, a pain to deal with, and you'll always find a way around them. Just delete then buff something else about the station
RE: Remove weapon platforms from POB - Binski - 11-02-2019
Platforms are necessary. They shouldn't completely deter a siege, but help deter some aggressors, and at least help in defense. They certainly make a difference. Its a 24/7 server, you need round the clock deterrence against individuals and small groups that might not know the rules as well.
Really there is no problem with them in general. One of the first things I experienced here was jumping into a system and getting torn up right away. I got angry but I rp'd a bit for the first time on the forum. Nowadays we always appease the lazier players. That attitude is the cancer. When you launch, you the player are responsible for paying attention. Dont fly too close to a POB you are hostile to, you only have to learn the hard way once. There are equal ways to wind up with them causing a problem, or helping you out.
C'mon shouldn't Agiera be pushing WP's? Pushing for them to require munitions so people will have to make deals and contracts for supply? Then there is also some new trade routes possible too. Munitions from Liberty would be a regular thing to see shipping out all over Sirius, some POB's would need regular shipments, others would barely ever use them still. If the base needed to have at least 100 units of munitions every time it replaces a WP, there is both a way to turn the problem into an inrp/game play solveable activity, and create a new practical job.
So if a base's WP's then bother a player, you can tell them to find an opposing faction to join and get a ship that can go back and keep the base depleted of ammo, if they can. This is where bots could come in handy too, if there were a public bot monotoring POB's who want them tracked, it could send out a notice to everyone in the main chat that a base is under some form of attack, and give owners/suppliers/defenders a fair and almost instant heads up.
RE: Remove weapon platforms from POB - Laz - 11-02-2019
(11-02-2019, 03:44 AM)Durandal Wrote: - While it still wouldn't make them immune to their fire being drawn, balance magicking the platforms so that they can only harm caps would at least cause them to interfere less with regular gameplay, right? Wrong. Balance magic does not function on NPC weapons.
It's probably noting that this is a programmer decision that was made, and it would be very easy to add an exception to that.
RE: Remove weapon platforms from POB - Durandal - 11-02-2019
Probably worth noting that our programmers have an ugly track record of only working on whatever they feel like, regardless of whether it is beneficial to the mod as a whole or not. I have immense respect for @Kazinsal for even taking the time to do what he did with balance magic, but I know that he has his own projects and is really not terribly invested in Discovery. I certainly know you're not, and that's okay too.
If a programmer wants to come along and actually sink their teeth into balance magic to bring us weapon platforms that don't ruin the game for everyone who isn't actively trying to siege a POB, I'll welcome that with open arms. But I'm not an advocate of waiting for solutions that don't exist yet.