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+--- Thread: Remove weapon platforms from POB (/showthread.php?tid=159368)
RE: Remove weapon platforms from POB - Laz - 11-02-2019
(11-02-2019, 10:21 AM)Durandal Wrote: Probably worth noting that our programmers have an ugly track record of only working on whatever they feel like, regardless of whether it is beneficial to the mod as a whole or noThat seems like a giant middle finger to @Alex. and @Invoker, but ok.
RE: Remove weapon platforms from POB - Lucas - 11-02-2019
Just do something to get rid of shit like this, please.
EDIT: Since the forum apparently doesn't start the video at the important mark, here's where you should skip to: 10:27
RE: Remove weapon platforms from POB - Durandal - 11-02-2019
People work on what they want to work on, and none of us are getting paid to do general mod work. @Alex. is the only programmer I can think of actively involved in the community whose primary interest is in maintaining the security of Discovery and patching whatever bugs arise rather than being invested in his own vision and design goals. @Invoker is great and I'm happy to have him doing things, but what I said applies, he works on what he feels like working on. It's hardly a middle finger, just the nature of the beast.
RE: Remove weapon platforms from POB - LaWey - 11-02-2019
For sake of great justice, correction in this thread, cos you all obviously didnt played sieges much after PoB and WP changes.
I should also note, that in my comments, i mostly mean repaired core 3 and higher. fresh core 1-2 require significantly less manpower. Everybody should remember, that in current mechanics all what need do siegers - while here no defendets, shot to base more hp than its repair by day. In case of Core 1-2 repairs its obviously possible to do by literally anything.
Quote:On other hand, 4 well placed WP's prevent a core 3 mining pob from getting erased in few hours by any lol group that decided to attack it "cuz lol why not", thus giving defenders a chance of logging.
Siege dred DoT at shield 6750. Repaired core 3 HP - 800.000.000. If count 8 hours as window of time (that in really rather 5-6, but count hard variant), lol group need 4 and more equipped that way dreds to do it for night. If they have that amount of dedicated players, they just take repair ship instead one dread ane do it for 2 nights instead one.
What lead as to:
Quote:- A single fighter set to cruise in a circle around a POB can completely disrupt the platforms as long as they're all aggro'd first before the battleships arrive. We currently do not have hook level access to weight target selection so that heavier ship classes are prioritized.
Flying circles for hours, for days, while others sleepy do others thing with weight laying on RMB, time to time correcting aim and shooting down bumping NPCs. Yes. Good luck.
Also this rise minimum amount of people for siege to 2.
Quote:Weapon platforms don't deter sieges - they thing they're supposed to do.
They do, just not solely. If WP setted right, they force siegers have repair ship. Its means that you need two mans at last always logged. That regime require or wide set of time zones in sieging player base, or 2-3 free players, otherwise it would mean that somebody from your team simple have sleep deprivations and than more base live, than more even dedicated siegers will cba to do it.
Another fun fact - right placed WP provide some concentration of fire, where you would like to have 2 repships, and probably 2 tankships, what increase amounts of minimum siegers to 3-4 players. (yes this for real, just small amounts of players bother to calculate geometrically-perfect WP positioning)
Quote:- Make platforms invincible like they used to be, making Repair ships work to keep their caps alive and providing a use for platforms in sieges past just being a nuisance.
Weapon platforms already respawn after 30 seconds (was fixed to it at siloso siege). Repair ships already work, and were widely used at Siloso siege, due abovementioned reasons.
Quote:Tell that to the IMG :^)
They had enough turret, but nobody to set them geometrically perfect. They setted them more or less right, but only in last days of siege, and "more or less" - they covered blind spots, but didnt provided high fire concentration, while had enough platform for it. 2 repships would reduce our DoT even more. We could've forced to roll back for some time, untill enough siege turret dreds would've amassed, and for this time playerbase could've just go in "cba mode", defenders could've use it to restore moral and develope more effective tactics, or shift fire by starting another events.
P.S. I'm not about that WP need to save, but alternative needed, because as you can see, WP always increase amounts of needed manpower, and what i forgot to mention - its reduce amounts of targets required to siege breaking by defenders to 1 ship, either repair one, either dodger. In case of dodger, defenders could also just shoot/reset their own platforms to restore aim.
RE: Remove weapon platforms from POB - Saronsen - 11-02-2019
(11-02-2019, 03:44 AM)Durandal Wrote: I really don't see a better solution than removing them entirely at this time
Yeah, PoBs really need to go, since they seem to have more problems than solutions and no one wants to touch that code with a fucking fifty meter pole.
Honestly, just do yourself and the rest of us a favor, refund the value of the PoB to the best of your abilities to the owner(s) and start selling the PoB equipment on a Connecticut base. Just keep the roleplay (admin spawned custom) PoBs around that're being occupied by various factions until they can be replaced by a permanent station instead of this nonsense no one has been able to fix for literal years.
Stop pretending PoBs are anything but a waste of time, energy, and the servers processing power.
RE: Remove weapon platforms from POB - Binski - 11-02-2019
(11-02-2019, 07:37 PM)Saronsen Wrote:(11-02-2019, 03:44 AM)Durandal Wrote: I really don't see a better solution than removing them entirely at this time
Yeah, PoBs really need to go, since they seem to have more problems than solutions and no one wants to touch that code with a fucking fifty meter pole.
Honestly, just do yourself and the rest of us a favor, refund the value of the PoB to the best of your abilities to the owner(s) and start selling the PoB equipment on a Connecticut base. Just keep the roleplay (admin spawned custom) PoBs around that're being occupied by various factions until they can be replaced by a permanent station instead of this nonsense no one has been able to fix for literal years.
Stop pretending PoBs are anything but a waste of time, energy, and the servers processing power.
POB's are one of the only things drawing people to the server. The potential to build your own space base here is also the driving factor around most consumption and trading. You want the server to just hurry up and die or something? There's still at least a hundred POB's on the base list.
POB's could use some touching up perhaps but they are really fun. What we lack is the demand of their services, and a reason to consume again.
We also should suggest areas to new prospective base owners on the best places to build if they want to avoid inrp problems. Bering opened up things for some indi bases, borderworld systems like magellan would be a good place for that, the system could use a commodity or something to draw some attention out there.
We should not be removing the more interactive parts of the game. And heaven forbid we let people, and even ENCOURAGE people to use bases for military purposes. Let navy factions build and maintain POB's for holding territory, making an advance into a system, attempting to lock down jumpholes or jumpgates. When it happens in areas where factions with big ships have ZOI, at least the scenario, and competition creates activity. Just leave the butthurt attitudes at home and take it out in game. Go grind.
RE: Remove weapon platforms from POB - Laz - 11-02-2019
(11-02-2019, 07:58 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: but they are really funMost definitely subjective.
(11-02-2019, 07:58 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: What we lack is the demand of their services, and a reason to consume again.I don't think that's true.
(11-02-2019, 07:58 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: We should not be removing the more interactive parts of the game.So bases are interteractive? What part about them? Is it the free flying 200k between two points, not interacting with anyone, or is it the silent trading to fund them? (This is a bit of strawman argument, but it is true in some instances)
(11-02-2019, 07:58 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: Go grind.The vast majority of this server do not find this fun.
RE: Remove weapon platforms from POB - Binski - 11-02-2019
(11-02-2019, 08:08 PM)Laz Wrote:(11-02-2019, 07:58 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: but they are really funMost definitely subjective.
How many years you been here? You never had fun building, using, or participating in sieging a POB? I have in all 3 cases many times. In fact, it was the best fun I ever had here really. All those players competing on both sides, it felt like a real conflict, and yeah, the social sim aspect of it was always very exciting. The entire situation was the interactivity.
(11-02-2019, 08:08 PM)Laz Wrote:(11-02-2019, 07:58 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: What we lack is the demand of their services, and a reason to consume again.I don't think that's true.
Well I think you're wrong. All of the biggest consumers already have most of the equipment accumulated so that there is little demand for what they construct. We need more activities to drive the need to and capability to use those things. Not to mention, if base consumption was on, and WP's needed even small amounts of ammo, attacking and defendng bases would be a thing going on here again. Most people, at least after their first base attempt, know what they're getting into when they build a base. If you build in the wild west, you may be attacked. Those players are usually more open to the extra work needed to defend it, like RP and owning capital ships to go with it. Most Zoners build a base and make sure they have a Neph or Aquilon to defend it. Nothing wrong with that.
(11-02-2019, 08:08 PM)Laz Wrote:(11-02-2019, 07:58 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: We should not be removing the more interactive parts of the game.So bases are interteractive? What part about them? Is it the free flying 200k between two points, not interacting with anyone, or is it the silent trading to fund them? (This is a bit of strawman argument, but it is true in some instances)
The fact that we use them, they consume commodities, they produce equipment, can be used to store and transfer equipment, can be used to exert force upon the environment (weapons platforms) are all ways they are interactive. They give people virtual jobs. But when we're all full up and there's nothing to do, they seem less important. At the same time, people FROWN upon using them to their fullest potential, like expanding territory. I built a couple of core 1's in Leeds, everyone knows what happened. I expected them to be attacked, for us to have a good battle, maybe inrp make a stride back towards Leeds. Instead it was like a did a big no no because I should have just known the unwritten rule that we don't do that here. That was pretty lame. Such things should be encouraged, not quietly discouraged. People were afraid to do anything for fear of some punishment or simply drawing ire of the community.
(11-02-2019, 08:08 PM)Laz Wrote:(11-02-2019, 07:58 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: Go grind.The vast majority of this server do not find this fun.
I don't find it fun anymore either, UNLESS there is a reason behind the grind. If a faction I support has built a base and wants to 'colonize' that area, or if a war was on and a house built a POB in a system they wanted to claim, I'd grind to help, grind for ships to help, equipment to make my chances better, etc, especially if they have enemies that will try to stop them. Purposful grind where you think you might make a difference helping your side is never that bad. This is why I preach about more freedom here. Frowning upon bold moves because they don't clear with a scripted plan is contrary to a place like this. Loosen the reigns on stuff like that and you might see peope start doing stuff again. Othewise its like players advocate against more because they don't want to do more, and still expect player population to go up magically.
Who cares if a faction succeeds in building a base and it blocks something. Enjoy helping them or trying to take them out. Don't complain on the forum, go get a big ship, if you don't have one that'll work, and join in. Or choose a new route. I remember when that was happening all the time. People believed the drama, instead of realizing that that was the point and why it was fun.
RE: Remove weapon platforms from POB - Trakais - 11-02-2019
(11-02-2019, 07:37 PM)Saronsen Wrote: ...
Stop pretending PoBs are anything but a waste of time, energy, and the servers processing power.
For god sake... let weapon platforms (and PoBs) in peace...
There is better solution. If you think, that this is "waste of time"- dont create PoB and waste YOUR time to maintain it (or do RP) ! Selling just PoB equipment in CONN for example isnt solution at all.. Complete nonsense... PoB building is one of the BEST inventins that exist in this game (2.best i think is bountyhunt addon which isnt in this server). its not easy, yes. Especially if youare player like me, who dont hawe english as native language, but i dont complain. If ill will my own Pob, then its just my decision if i sleep or play game in night, if im paying or not paying (ingame credit) to someone for each post in RP thread, if i will, that it look fine.. This server hawe RP rules.. and everyone hawe choice to accept them or spent that valuable time somewhere else.
RE: Remove weapon platforms from POB - Saronsen - 11-02-2019
(11-02-2019, 07:58 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: POB's are one of the only things drawing people to the server. The potential to build your own space base here is also the driving factor around most consumption and trading. You want the server to just hurry up and die or something?
If building your own bases was the main reason people were playing a space game, they'd be playing EVE online, which is vastly superior in every way for building space stations and installations.
Quote:There's still at least a hundred POB's on the base list.
There is definitely not a problem when there's more bases than active players. Most of these are from single players who own 10+ PoBs and supply them.
Sure, the bases keep those players around, but that's like leaving your braindead family member on life support.