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+--- Thread: ZOI Shenanigans (/showthread.php?tid=159556)
RE: ZOI Shenanigans - Tomas. - 03-28-2018
Replying as of 0935 EST:
Thank you everyone for the feedback.
@Shinju: (I was wrong about Galileo. The full original ID text is displayed below.) The only reason I can think of that so many systems were added was probably because of (what is now) Point 2: Outcasts can't, by their ID, defend even their own allied transports outside of their ZOI, which has also led to some pretty silly situations in these smuggling routes. Sure, they can basically attack anything they want in lieu of that line...but only inside those systems listed. If we wanted to really rule-lawyer it to the tee it'd be sanctionable to attack a player attacking your convoy as long as that player didn't shoot you directly, a situation that can happen along any of these smuggling routes. For instance, when in Frankfurt/NB/Hamburg/Bering on the way to Liberty or to see the Unioners for that delicious military salvage. This is all assuming there isn't some blanket rule I'm overlooking.
@Spazzy: It could be (and probably should have been, given how long this has been an issue particularly in Liberty) given the BH Core treatment as I said in the last post. Restrict them to systems without jump gates and the Sigmas, so that we can still get to Theta/Gamma. It's dumb for Outcasts and Corsairs both to be fielding capital assets so far from home, right? Eliminate the problem by making such happenings against ID rules and be done with it. There would still be plenty of pews in the Sigmas and Omicrons.
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What we have currently is this:
Pilot carrying this unlawful ID is a member of the Outcasts, who:
Can attack any ships within their Zone of Influence, except transports.
Can demand cargo and credits from any ship within their Zone of Influence, and attack them if they do not comply.
Can treat ships carrying Artifacts or Stabiline as combat targets.
Cannot ally with any lawfuls except with Bretonian lawfuls against other unlawfuls or Gallic Royal Navy only.
Zone of Influence: Bretonia, Liberty, Kusari, Taus, Sigmas, Omicrons, Gallic Borderworlds, Magellan, Cortez, Coronado
Allowed ships: Fighters, Freighters, Transports, Gunboats, Cruisers, Battleships
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What we could have instead is this:
Pilot carrying this unlawful ID is a member of the Outcasts, who:
Can attack ships belonging to houses or organizations considered hostile by the Outcasts within their Zone of Influence, except transports.
Can demand cargo and credits from ships including transports within their Zone of Influence, and attack them if they do not comply.
Can attack lawfuls, unlawfuls and quasi-lawfuls in self-defense, to protect an allied or neutral ship, or in defense of Outcast bases.
Can treat ships carrying Artifacts or Stabiline as combat targets.
Cannot ally with any lawfuls except with Bretonian lawfuls against other unlawfuls or Gallic Royal Navy only.
Cannot bring Cruisers or Battleships into any system containing a Jump Gate with the exception of Sigma-19, Sigma-17 and the Omicrons.
Zone of Influence: Bretonia, Liberty, Kusari, Taus, Sigmas, Omicrons, Gallic Borderworlds, Coronado, Cortez, Magellan, Kepler, Galileo, Kansas, Inverness
(this could probably be reduced by removing the in-between systems as Shinju suggested if the other changes are kept)
Allowed ships: Fighters, Freighters, Transports, Gunboats, Cruisers, Battleships
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The above example has not been submitted for evaluation of course and may contain loopholes I'm not aware of.
This change removes the terrorist ID-ish tendencies that the Outcast ID has now, provides them with the means of defending themselves if they are attacked outside of their ZOI, and greatly restricts the ability for OC caps to fly everywhere and mess stuff up without eating a sanction report. It also clarifies the Borderworlds per the standards listed in other IDs and adds Kansas and Inverness at @Durandal's suggestion. The Artifact/Stabiline line was left in to close any potential gaps where a freelancer or Junker was carrying hostile cargo and thus could not be shot on sight. It may not be necessary at all with the ZOI and ID rewritten in this way.
The verbage here is copied directly from other IDs to display precedent. It seems we all agree that for various reasons the ID is currently broken and needs revision.
Thoughts?
RE: ZOI Shenanigans - Giorgio - 03-28-2018
(03-28-2018, 12:32 PM)Shinju Wrote: Kepler because they would have to go through whole Kusari. Bering because Texas is the only system on South of Liberty Outcasts go to. Actually OC ZoI is already big enough and should be smaller.
They can go through Kepler/Galileo anyway, just can't enforce their ID rules there, like most other IDs.
(03-28-2018, 12:37 PM)sindroms Wrote: It is so that their ID cannot physically siege every single POB in the game.
They can't go to Rheinland regardless, and Kepler/Galileo have a relatively small amount of POBs.
RE: ZOI Shenanigans - Shinju - 03-28-2018
I can go anywhere as Liberty Rogue and I will probably ask for unrestricted ZoI again, because according to Thomas's logic he cannot protect convoys. And Rogues travel around Sirius. I mean, current Outcast ID pretty much disregards local unlawful factions activity. Due to their huge ZoI. Three Houses + Taus + Sigmas + Omicrons is a bit too much. It should be done in same way as paetly Corsair ID was. Let Outcasts roam in California and Texas instead of whole Liberty, remove Tokyo, Kyushu and Hiroshima from their ZoI. Just border systems of house controlled space. That would give local unlawfuls at last something to do and give them something above Outcasts.
Mostly are suffering Dragons, GC, Xenos because who would play them if Outcasts have very same ID, ZoI and a bonus in form of GB - Xenos, Cruiser - GC, ZoI - Dragons.
RE: ZOI Shenanigans - Giorgio - 03-28-2018
(03-28-2018, 04:00 PM)Shinju Wrote: I can go anywhere as Liberty Rogue and I will probably ask for unrestricted ZoI again
Quote:Liberty Rogue
The faction literally has "Liberty" in it's name, that's one of the many, many reasons why you can't compare them with the Outcasts. Most of the factions you mentioned don't "suffer" from the OC presence, because they are hostile to them. The BD| are actually one of the most active unlawful factions. Besides, you rarely see OCs in Kusari. The whole "suffering" problem is easily solved by declaring the OCs as hostile, just like the LR did in the past. Nobody is preventing you from doing that again.
RE: ZOI Shenanigans - Shinju - 03-28-2018
That's a poor argument just because faction has "Liberty" in its name, doesn't mean they should stick to Liberty only. Since inRP Rogues and Junkers are main Cardamine exporting factions. I still stand behind my statement that Outcast ZoI is harmful, seeing more MNS caps in NY than Xenos or Hackers.
Also by your argument, MNS stands for Maltese Naval Ship, so they should stay at Malta, right?
RE: ZOI Shenanigans - Titan* - 03-28-2018
Outcasts are similar to Corsairs it is second biggest unlawful faction. If corsairs can raid Rheinland/Bretonia with their capital ships why we are prohibiting outcasts?
Corsairs can raid Bretonia,Rheinland and some part of the Kusari
Outcasts can raid Liberty,Kusari and some part of the Bretonia
I don't see anything wrong with Outcasts ID.
If Outcasts zoi is harmful, corsairs zoi harmful too.
RE: ZOI Shenanigans - Shinju - 03-28-2018
Corsairs cannot go to New Berlin, Munich (not sure), they don't have ZoI in Taus and systems like Coronado, Inverness, Cortez and Magellan. So still Outcasts have got bigger ZoI, despite Corsairs having bigger numbers of people. So I can see a difference, kind sir.
Outcasts have 3 Houses as ZoI, Half of Gallia, whole Taus, Omicrons and Sigmas. All they are missing is one house, Omegas and Kepler with Galileo. While Sairs are missing part of Rheinland, Half of Gallia, whole Liberty, Magellan, Cortez, Coronado, and according to you part of Kusari. So here you go.
RE: ZOI Shenanigans - The Sovereign - 03-28-2018
Play nice.
RE: ZOI Shenanigans - Thunderer - 03-28-2018
Use green.
RE: ZOI Shenanigans - Vendetta - 03-28-2018
If anything, Outcasts should lose ZoI in Liberty or at the very least lose the ability to bring capital ships there.