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+---- Thread: Analysis: Xeno Guns (/showthread.php?tid=159569)
RE: Analysis: Xeno Guns - Sand_Spider - 04-01-2018
@Antonio Neat! Given that Xenos can already use Zoner 3.03s at 90% anyways, 6.67 is about the only refire rate that isn't Legion-made which would make sense, given your solid point regarding 8.33s.
With the popularity of Proposal #4, I've gone ahead and tweaked its stats to reflect a weapon that fires at a rate 6.67 and updated the OP, as well as listed the updated Suntiger #4.1 here. As it turns out... It's actually very similar to the wildly unpopular Proposal #2. Further discussion regarding this version is welcome!
Weapon Type: Particle
Hull Damage: 424
Shield Damage: 212
Range: 800m
Projectile Speed: 650m/s
Refire Rate: 6.67
Energy Usage: 107
RE: Analysis: Xeno Guns - Sand_Spider - 05-15-2018
I'm giving this a bump. Seeing as how the community loved the idea of a 650m/s 8.33 with ludicrously high damage and energy requirements, I'm inclined to stick to my guns (Hah!) and Dev Request Suntigers as 8.33s. But, it was mentioned by Antonio that a 6.67 would make more sense/offer more refire variety to Xenos, since the Legion offers the Xenos an 8.33 already. That being said, the entire purpose of re-vamping Suntigers was to advocate for Xenos using their own tech over Legion guns/ships in the first place, so perhaps an 8.33 isn't such a bad thing, especially given the mold-breaking high range/low projectile speed.
Given the overwhelming support of Proposal #4, pre-updated stats (12/17 votes at time of this post!), I'm inclined to go with the people's popular choice. Before I put in a Dev Request, should I post a 2nd thread to allow people to re-vote between Proposal #4 Versions 1 and 2, or just go ahead with the Request after any final thoughts posted in this thread?
Also: Weapon Typing. What should the final damage type be if we go with 8.33s? Tachyon? I do tend to think that an 8.33 Particle might be a bit too overbearing, with how much damage it offers.
RE: Analysis: Xeno Guns - Reeves - 08-03-2018
I'd like to see one of these proposals implemented at some point. The xeno arsenal is horribly neglected and just not versatile or varied in the slightest.
If proposal 4 does go through then I would also suggest returning the black widows to a speed of 700 rather than 650, as some diversification in projectile velocity is required.
RE: Analysis: Xeno Guns - Sand_Spider - 08-03-2018
Since it's been more than two months between now and my previous post, I think I may go ahead and put in the Dev Request for Suntigers to be buffed this weekend (And maybe Black Widows bumped back up to 700m/s..?). I may get the chance to post it while at work, but I wouldn't count on it since it's been busy here lately.
I'm thinking for the sake of balance, the renewed Suntigers might do well as Tachyon (Break that 8.33 Laser/Photon mold!) rather than Particle, while Black Widows can retain their Particle typing.
RE: Analysis: Xeno Guns - Reeves - 08-03-2018
(08-03-2018, 02:00 PM)Sand_Spider Wrote: Since it's been more than two months between now and my previous post, I think I may go ahead and put in the Dev Request for Suntigers to be buffed this weekend (And maybe Black Widows bumped back up to 700m/s..?). I may get the chance to post it while at work, but I wouldn't count on it since it's been busy here lately.
I'm thinking for the sake of balance, the renewed Suntigers might do well as Tachyon (Break that 8.33 Laser/Photon mold!) rather than Particle, while Black Widows can retain their Particle typing.
I do agree with your reasoning but the Xenos don't use tachyon weapons, asides from the occasional use of Garands. They favor heavy hitting and not necessarily efficient weaponry, Plasma/Particle is xeno culture, tachyon makes us seem like outcasts but red.
RE: Analysis: Xeno Guns - Sand_Spider - 08-03-2018
Perhaps a Plasma 8.33, then? While that does seem a bit overpowered, Xenos are shot at by nearly everything, both Libertonian and foreign, and are the only faction without access to gunboats. Even if Xenos were to gain access to say, Condors-only, they would likely be very quickly hunted down by cruisers and up, or heavy anti-gunboat gunboats.
Shooting transports is still far more efficiently done with bombers, Bullmastiffs, or even in some cases, fighters. Gunboats thrust slower than even Battle Transports, so if/when Xenos are granted Condor access, they'd likely be better used against other gunboats or smaller craft.
Taking all of that into account, a Plasma 8.33 doesn't seem all too bad, especially since four of them would eat up an astounding 3,064 energy per second. Even HEIMDALLs (3,000 damage per second) and RAGNAROKS (650m/s @ 2,750 damage per second) don't eat up that much energy (Although I admit that being Codenames, you can't slap them on everything).
Not to mention, a Molecular shield is all it takes to ruin a Plasma/Particle user's day.
RE: Analysis: Xeno Guns - Reeves - 08-03-2018
(08-03-2018, 04:37 PM)Sand_Spider Wrote: Perhaps a Plasma 8.33, then? While that does seem a bit overpowered, Xenos are shot at by nearly everything, both Libertonian and foreign, and are the only faction without access to gunboats. Even if Xenos were to gain access to say, Condors-only, they would likely be very quickly hunted down by cruisers and up, or heavy anti-gunboat gunboats.
Shooting transports is still far more efficiently done with bombers, Bullmastiffs, or even in some cases, fighters. Gunboats thrust slower than even Battle Transports, so if/when Xenos are granted Condor access, they'd likely be better used against other gunboats or smaller craft.
Taking all of that into account, a Plasma 8.33 doesn't seem all too bad, especially since four of them would eat up an astounding 3,064 energy per second. Even HEIMDALLs (3,000 damage per second) and RAGNAROKS (650m/s @ 2,750 damage per second) don't eat up that much energy (Although I admit that being Codenames, you can't slap them on everything).
Not to mention, a Molecular shield is all it takes to ruin a Plasma/Particle user's day.
I still feel partial to the particle variant of energy damage given the theme of the xenos in their usage of weaponry, but we'll just have to wait and see what the devs decide to do with this.
RE: Analysis: Xeno Guns - Durandal - 08-03-2018
I'd be fine with the 6.67 Suntiger idea, but neither particle nor plasma guns have an 8.33 refire rate, so that's pretty much out of the question. Imo it's bad enough that almost every faction can use every refire via civilian or allied guns now. Giving everyone their own refire natively is just not going to happen.
RE: Analysis: Xeno Guns - Reeves - 08-03-2018
(08-03-2018, 04:51 PM)Durandal Wrote: I'd be fine with the 6.67 Suntiger idea, but neither particle nor plasma guns have an 8.33 refire rate, so that's pretty much out of the question. Imo it's bad enough that almost every faction can use every refire via civilian or allied guns now. Giving everyone their own refire natively is just not going to happen.
I do believe 6.67 particles exist in some form, though I'd have to double-check, in any case if that's the route it has to go it's more than definitely good enough to offer versatility. Yes, allied cells are a thing but it's important for factions to have their own personalities, that's sort of the main reason why people are passionate about certain factions and why I simply cannot bring myself to use any Legion guns on my Xeno.
RE: Analysis: Xeno Guns - Sand_Spider - 08-03-2018
The PG Chain Gun is a 6.67 Particle gun, and the only one of its kind, to my knowledge.
Regarding @Durandal's concerns: Yeah, I kind've figured an 8.33 at Plasma/Particle typing is a bit much.
As a 6.67, using the Damage Per Second and Energy Per Second of the most popular 8.33 choice, we receive the following stats:
Hull Damage: 424
Shield Damage: 212
Range: 800m
Projectile Speed: 650m/s
Refire Rate: 6.67
Energy Usage: 114
The question must be begged, however: What weapon Type?
Also: Black Widows. Is it unreasonable to have them buffed back up to 700m/s to offer in-faction diversity to the Xenos? If that's agreeable, would any other part of the gun need adjusting to compensate?
Edit: I updated the main post to show these updated stats, as well. Check the bottom of the OP, if desired!