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A Dynamic Economy - Ideas - Laz - 02-23-2019
Dynamic Economy
So. Snoopy's use of the term dynamic economy in that other thread inspired me to revisit an old idea I had for implementing a psudo-dynamic economy.
There are a few ideas I had rolling around several months ago for achieving this, and I know they are all possible, but whether they'd be wanted is a whole other story. I'm just going to post some of them here, and let you guys say what you think about them.
Idea One
Idea one is the simplest. I created a small test case to make sure it works (as I've done with all of them). The idea is to make it so every day (or week, whenever) when the server is restarted the prices will be reloaded, similar to how we already do, with the ore prices, and we specify a system, base, or whatever we want, to have the prices of all it's commodities, and or equipment, multiplied by a certain value. This could be up or down. This solution would be infinitely scalable, so we could do it for every base in the game, should we so desire.
So imagine one week we have a random base, let's go with Planet New London. This base is selling Diplomats at 1000 credits per unit. We have our solution to target the New London system and multiply everything between a value between -0.05 and 0.05. So the price of each commodity could go up or down by 5%. So you could revisit the base a day later and find out that diplomats now cost 1020 credits per, or maybe 950. We could set the two values it picks between to whatever we want and then change that per system, if we want.
So imagine one week we have a random base, let's go with Planet New London. This base is selling Diplomats at 1000 credits per unit. We have our solution to target the New London system and multiply everything between a value between -0.05 and 0.05. So the price of each commodity could go up or down by 5%. So you could revisit the base a day later and find out that diplomats now cost 1020 credits per, or maybe 950. We could set the two values it picks between to whatever we want and then change that per system, if we want.
Idea Two
This one concerns the idea of dynamic mining. I've been looking into it and I believe it should be possible to create a mining mechanic similar to the one found in Elite Dangerous, and similar games. This would be we use a mining laser and shoot a rock (we'd probably use a NPC like the anomalies) and while we shoot it chunks of the rock start flying off into space, a bit like pre-FLHook mining, if you can remember that far back.
We could make it pick random numbers to drop and add various restrictions, similar to the current system, but add a little more RNG into the mix (if made, this would most likely run concurrent to the current system). Again, just an idea.
We could make it pick random numbers to drop and add various restrictions, similar to the current system, but add a little more RNG into the mix (if made, this would most likely run concurrent to the current system). Again, just an idea.
Idea Three
By far the most simple, this one would simply select a certain commodity (or commodities) everyday and pick a sellpoint for them a certain distance way using various bits of logic to define where it would be. Things like normal price, distance away, faction reputations and such. The main problem with this one is that, while it is easier to implement, it would be rather difficult to ensure that it would make logical sense that certain bases would start importing/exporting certain things.
It's an idea none the less.
It's an idea none the less.
These are all just ideas for now, and I'm more giving them out so people consider the idea and then chip in their own ideas/opinions. If an idea comes along that has support and is implementable, perhaps we can actually get it to be a thing.
RE: A Dynamic Economy - Ideas - Piombo65 - 02-23-2019
(02-23-2019, 12:14 PM)Laz Wrote: Idea OneIdea one is the simplest. I created a small test case to make sure it works (as I've done with all of them). The idea is to make it so every day (or week, whenever) when the server is restarted the prices will be reloaded, similar to how we already do, with the ore prices, and we specify a system, base, or whatever we want, to have the prices of all it's commodities, and or equipment, multiplied by a certain value. This could be up or down. This solution would be infinitely scalable, so we could do it for every base in the game, should we so desire.
So imagine one week we have a random base, let's go with Planet New London. This base is selling Diplomats at 1000 credits per unit. We have our solution to target the New London system and multiply everything between a value between -0.05 and 0.05. So the price of each commodity could go up or down by 5%. So you could revisit the base a day later and find out that diplomats now cost 1020 credits per, or maybe 950. We could set the two values it picks between to whatever we want and then change that per system, if we want.
*Hamburg City Intensifies*
(02-23-2019, 12:14 PM)Laz Wrote: Idea TwoThis one concerns the idea of dynamic mining. I've been looking into it and I believe it should be possible to create a mining mechanic similar to the one found in Elite Dangerous, and similar games. This would be we use a mining laser and shoot a rock (we'd probably use a NPC like the anomalies) and while we shoot it chunks of the rock start flying off into space, a bit like pre-FLHook mining, if you can remember that far back.
We could make it pick random numbers to drop and add various restrictions, similar to the current system, but add a little more RNG into the mix (if made, this would most likely run concurrent to the current system). Again, just an idea.
Make those casual numbers even in the anomalies, not only 5 sci datas.
(02-23-2019, 12:14 PM)Laz Wrote: Idea ThreeBy far the most simple, this one would simply select a certain commodity (or commodities) everyday and pick a sellpoint for them a certain distance way using various bits of logic to define where it would be. Things like normal price, distance away, faction reputations and such. The main problem with this one is that, while it is easier to implement, it would be rather difficult to ensure that it would make logical sense that certain bases would start importing/exporting certain things.
TL;DR: Make more trade/battle events frequently!!
In a nutshell: There's no need of a player that wakes up and starts propose similar simple things. Why didn't admins have those ideas in mind? (No offence).
RE: A Dynamic Economy - Ideas - Laz - 02-23-2019
That TL;DR really has nothing to do with what I actually suggested. The event plugin would not be involved in these programs/plugins.
RE: A Dynamic Economy - Ideas - Lythrilux - 02-23-2019
Why not do all three, they're all good ideas.
RE: A Dynamic Economy - Ideas - Piombo65 - 02-23-2019
(02-23-2019, 12:21 PM)Laz Wrote: That TL;DR really has nothing to do with what I actually suggested. The event plugin would not be involved in these programs/plugins.
But it's like a daily trade event.
RE: A Dynamic Economy - Ideas - Enkidu - 02-23-2019
I feel like all three have a place here.
RE: A Dynamic Economy - Ideas - Kathy - 02-23-2019
If I'm understanding correctly, idea one would just add small fluctuations to prices at random? Is that possible per commodity on each base, or only per base / system? I think any system that adds a bit of variation to the prices sounds better than static prices.
To me, it's very important that buy/sell locations make sense in RP, so I'm not sure about idea three. Even if the destinations for each commodity are picked from a curated list, I think most destinations that do accept a commodity on one day have no reason to completely reject it on the next day (but maybe they'd pay more or less for it depending on supply and demand). I think it'd be better to have fixed buy/sell locations chosen according to RP, and then add some fluctuation to those prices.
It might also be interesting (if possible ? big question mark) to base price fluctuations on how often a commodity was bought and sold at that base recently. I'm not an economist, but that seems like it should behave like self-correcting, temporary buffs/nerfs. I guess it also depends on whether or not you want the fluctuations to be dictated by player behavior. The NPC traders vastly outnumber us.
RE: A Dynamic Economy - Ideas - Unseelie - 02-23-2019
We're trying to do number 3 right now, on a slower timescale. Always have some sort of trading event running, basically, at slightly higher than the regular trade rate. The reason for that is that having one route that attracts a lot of traders is very good for priming whatever region the trade is going through for piracy and anti-piracy actions from all the regional factions, and we think its a good way to encourage activity to rotate a little, so that some of the places that don't get a lot of love do occasionally get a solid pass of heavy trade and the berzerk nature of gameplay that follows that stuff around.
I'd very much like to eventually have a backlog of such trade events that we can just rotate through semi-randomly every couple of days.
RE: A Dynamic Economy - Ideas - R.P.Curator - 02-23-2019
Hello;
I do have to say that of the 3 ideas bounced around, i find the 1st one the most attractive and why:
- its easy to implement (on dev side)
- it can reflect the inRP story (i.e.: the war in Bretonia would mean that certain commodities / contraband would have a higher price there due to being in demand: pharmaceuticals, side arms, black market munitions, etc.)
- it can affect a whole system or sector, which will generate activity in that entire system or even sector and on all the start points and trade routes that go there
- by modifying more than 1 commodity, it generates the possibility for: trading with regular commodities, smuggling, piracy, police activity and lots of possibilities for RP and stories
- it can be "moved along" from 1 system/sector to another, thus increasing activity in some of the more quiet areas
2nd Idea I'm not a big fan of. Its already implemented with Sci-data, which would excuse the costs and implications of it - its kind of a hassle to mine for sci-data, let alone for regular ore. And since there is already a system in place, why re-invent the wheel?
3rd Idea sounds nice, but it would require work more than the first and would be trickier to follow, update and maintain often enough to generate a dynamic economy.
RE: A Dynamic Economy - Ideas - JonasHudson - 02-23-2019
Idea 1 seems somewhat pointless to me. A 5% fluctuation seems like it barely would impact the situation. But I like the idea of larger rates of fluctuations, and perhaps rotate prices around or among 2-3 destinations. It would be cool to see weekly market updates on changing prices. Jump them around, even to random places for random factions. Suddenly beryllium ore could have a competetative sell point pop up at Freeport 2 or Vieques Shipyard. And in that situation, once the navy hears of it they can take the chance to enforce the embargo on Bering for those who choose the quasi/unlawful choice. On the unlawful side, pirates and Xenos types might want to cash in as well.
Idea 2 seems cool but I just worry about complicated mechanics overkilling what already works. If it can be done without detriment to gameplay, then new mining techniques would be a great addition after all these years.
Idea 3 seems straightforward enough.
My own 2 cents on the Sirian Economy is that we are slowly running out of valuables to entice players into earning. The server is old and so the majority of the player base are well invested and wealthy. Sometimes even the offer of quick and easy credits isn't the most enticing thing. Since sci data came in we see another material currency arise that proves that credits are only a means to an ends, and that we want money to get stuff, and its the stuff (ships, weapons, equipment, ship features, roleplay features (like SRP ID's), etc) that players value more.
So one last shameless self plug of Sirius Wars because I believe that adopting a system like this lets us turn activity into a commodity, and pilot units again into a valueable commodity. On top of it all, it then turns RP story gains into a commodity that players essentially purchase or earn. The extra driving force of partitioning story development and making change commensurate with the rate of earning means players have many things and reasons to earn credits, aside from just money to buy ships and equipment, where so many already have most of whatever they want. When the allure of ships and stuff does wear off, turning large scale story effecting actions (like destroying or capturing a base) into a commodity steps up to fill the void. So yes I believe the future of the mod could be in selling big actions for story effect. In fact I believe and always have believed that the motivation to cause change or prevent change to events is a bigger motivating factor for players than just credits for the purpose of buying stuff.
This was proven in Omega-49, as not only were fast credits part of the draw, but the chance to help the Zoner cause, or Bretonian one was a big one that got players to log.