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+--- Thread: Disappointment & Defeatism (/showthread.php?tid=169510)
Disappointment & Defeatism - Durandal - 04-07-2019
It isn't often that I make threads like this. The last time I invested myself so heavily in Discovery as a player to write such a thing was probably back in 2015. Maybe earlier. I want to reiterate what I just said, that I'm typing this as a player, not a developer.
I was present, at the Great Hunt event, as one of you. I did act as a liaison between staff and players on our team, much as I assume @Victor Steiner did on the Bretonian side. I'm not disappointed because anyone played dirty, ganked anyone, didn't follow the rules, et cetera. I'm disappointed because both sides had given up before the event was even run. I'm disappointed because I witnessed both parties today allow their actions to be defined by a predetermined decision that everyone was out to get them, nothing mattered, and that it isn't even worth it to try.
In the first phase of the event, we witnessed Bretonia swoop up the pod in a surprise kill a tractor it in. Up until this point, things were going pretty well. When the tables turned, I dropped PMs to the staff letting them know that there was essentially no chance for a random outcome if the people attempting to chase the pod were continually disrupted. When this happened, I witnessed nearly every person on the Gallic side resign themselves to defeat, a few even logging off, accusations of bias, and that the team generally didn't care about Gallia. Now although I could understand that, given that it was nigh impossible to cruise back up to the pod carrier to attempt to cap it back (I'm told the pod carrier, Y'berg, also cruised, but I have no proof of such).
I could understand it, but I didn't much care for it. I didn't care for it because the proper, levelheaded thing to do, would be to come at it with a clear head because, my god people, we're playing a videogame here. It was a loss, and it wasn't much fun, but that's hardly the end of the world. The fact that the people I was playing with were so grief stricken over the whole ordeal was not comfortable, at all. Nobody wanted to make an effort to improve things, they just wanted to be upset.
Despite the accusations of bias, devtonia, et cetera, we had a redo, wherein the staff, in a timely manner, went on to correct every major, visible issue plaguing the event. On the spot. No more disrupting the attackers, no cruising, calling for sides to be balanced, and a thirty second delay when the pod changed hands. I even took it upon myself to tractor the pod and not immediately run for the Dublin hole, instead choosing to dodge for a good ten minutes or so. Right about then I noticed something alarm. Bretonians were dying, but despite them having the numbers, and it being a respawn event, nobody was coming back.
I decided to hand the pod to someone who I knew was a significantly worse pilot than myself, who was then able to thrust all the way from Poole to the Carillon in Dublin with a mere three fighters chasing him, which were quickly dispatched. Bretonia had more players, and was able to cruise up unimpeded, but didn't even make an effort until the last second and even then with only a fraction of their forces. I don't need to read minds to know that much the same thing was happening on the Bretonian side as I saw on the Gallic side earlier. People quit. People, I'm sure, were distraught and enraged over the 'loss' that had been 'forced' upon them when an attempt was made to rerun the event to be more fun for all parties involved.
Why?
I want to know how and why someone can be so incensed and defeated over being given a level playing field. We've held a number of these story events so far and never once in old Admin team style have I faulted the players. We as a team have always been more than willing to take responsibility for our mistakes and work to better ourselves through them. There was an effort made to correct issues on the spot in a timely and professional manner, and I think our team, who I was not representing at the time, did a damn good job of it. This one? This one isn't on them.
I didn't see that same effort from either team today. Not the one I played with, and not the one I played against. And that, I don't think, is a good state of affairs.
RE: Disappointment & Defeatism - Saronsen - 04-07-2019
Why did Gallia give up at first?
The event started without sides being balanced, thanks to a number of players not logging in for the event. Instead of being delayed, it was started.
Why did Bretonia give up second?
Because after winning the event, they were told 'no you are big gay', fresh GRN pilots logged on ready to play with no fatigue, they were told the tactics they were using were banned and they had to re-do the entire event.
Snip ~Vex
RE: Disappointment & Defeatism - Lusitano - 04-07-2019
It's only a game
RE: Disappointment & Defeatism - Y'berg - 04-07-2019
(04-07-2019, 09:29 PM)Durandal Wrote: (I'm told the pod carrier, Y'berg, also cruised, but I have no proof of such).did not happened. Here's the entire time while i had the pod, up until docking.
Quote:[07.04.2019 18:22:12] Death: MRG|Pierre,Vaillant was put out of action by HMS-Skylark (Missile/Torpedo).
[07.04.2019 18:22:12] Death: Thierry.RenauIt was put out of action by HMS-Skylark (Missile/Torpedo).
[07.04.2019 18:22:16] Alucard: which 1?
[07.04.2019 18:22:17] HMS-Skylark: jhahahaha
[07.04.2019 18:22:24] Triakis: Escape 3
[07.04.2019 18:22:28] BAF|Cpt.Pria.Y'berg: me
[07.04.2019 18:22:31] Richard.Neilson: Gauthier
[07.04.2019 18:22:42] BAF|Cpt.Pria.Y'berg: me
[07.04.2019 18:22:44] BAF|MN-George.Teeze: Dublin is clear, keep blocking JG, chaps.
[07.04.2019 18:22:48] CONSOLE: BAF|Cpt.Pria.Y'Berg has the homing beacon!
[07.04.2019 18:23:15] Alucard: PROTECT HIM
[07.04.2019 18:23:19] BAF|Cpt.Pria.Y'berg: where hole
[07.04.2019 18:23:34] Richard.Neilson: north
[07.04.2019 18:23:38] Rick.O'Sullivan.: Spread boyz
[07.04.2019 18:23:41] MRG|Louis'Clement: Going for the next one.
[07.04.2019 18:23:41] BAF|MN-George.Teeze: DE34
[07.04.2019 18:23:53] Rick.O'Sullivan.: What ya think, frogs first?
[07.04.2019 18:24:11] William.Collins: Yea
[07.04.2019 18:24:21] Joshua.Walters: Walters reporting for duty.
[07.04.2019 18:24:26] Death: MRG|Marc.Zimmermann was put out of action by HMS-Skylark (Missile/Torpedo).
[07.04.2019 18:24:27] Triakis: I'll leave you BAF Boys too it
[07.04.2019 18:24:28] Joshua.Walters: Targets are locked.
[07.04.2019 18:24:31] Ellsworth: good mislle
[07.04.2019 18:24:34] Joshua.Walters: Here I go, hoping to not die.
[07.04.2019 18:24:37] HMS-Skylark: nepo is gud
[07.04.2019 18:24:46] Richard.Neilson: Coming to you Yberg
[07.04.2019 18:24:56] Alucard: CRUISE
[07.04.2019 18:24:58] Triakis: Target?
[07.04.2019 18:25:05] Richard.Neilson: Protect Yberg
[07.04.2019 18:25:14] Alucard: CRUISE YBER
[07.04.2019 18:25:15] Recruit.Donnagan: roger
[07.04.2019 18:25:19] BAF|Cpt.Pria.Y'berg: can i cruise with it?
[07.04.2019 18:25:20] Richard.Neilson: Reengaging frogs
[07.04.2019 18:25:20] Rick.O'Sullivan.: Bretonians good too
[07.04.2019 18:25:26] Alucard: I guess so
[07.04.2019 18:25:32] Death: BAF|Lt.Kevin.Riley was put out of action by William.Collins (Gun).
[07.04.2019 18:25:43] GG-W-Satyrion: the escape pod itself isn't allowed to cruise though
[07.04.2019 18:25:44] William.Collins: Not enough good
[07.04.2019 18:25:44] CONSOLE: The escape pod is moving north through B/C4
[07.04.2019 18:26:24] CONSOLE: Correction, pod is moving through C4 north towards Broadstone.
[07.04.2019 18:26:28] Death: [LN]-LNS-Tijuana suffered a self-administered loadout error (Missile/Torpedo).
[07.04.2019 18:26:36] Death: MRG|E-S.de.Belmond. was put out of action by BAF|Lt.Lorgar.Jones (Mine).
[07.04.2019 18:26:57] Richard.Neilson: 4D top right corner is the hole Yberg
[07.04.2019 18:27:11] 5th|David.Nelson: hello there
[07.04.2019 18:27:12] Recruit.Donnagan: alright
[07.04.2019 18:27:13] Recruit.Donnagan: got it
[07.04.2019 18:27:17] CONSOLE: Possible cheating detected: Boue.
[07.04.2019 18:27:20] 5th|David.Nelson: Gonna take some time.. forgot the gate is rekt..
[07.04.2019 18:27:32] Recruit.Donnagan: moving into cambridge
[07.04.2019 18:27:40] Death: \*/~La.Vigilance was put out of action by [SIS]HMS-Stout (Gun).
[07.04.2019 18:27:51] LN-Arthur.Maxson: nice
[07.04.2019 18:28:04] Alucard: where is the dude with the pod ?
[07.04.2019 18:28:06] Richard.Neilson: Cover this damn hole
[07.04.2019 18:28:08] Triakis: Cambridge
[07.04.2019 18:28:08] BAF|Cpt.Pria.Y'berg: camb
[07.04.2019 18:28:09] Finesse: He is cruising.
[07.04.2019 18:28:10] GG-W-Cazadora: Cambridge
[07.04.2019 18:28:10] BAF|Lt.Lorgar.Jones: where the pod?
[07.04.2019 18:28:11] Alucard: good
[07.04.2019 18:28:12] Death: MRG|Louis'Clement was put out of action by BAF|Cdr.Eva.Flameheart (Mine).
[07.04.2019 18:28:12] Julia.Copper: cambridge
[07.04.2019 18:28:15] [SIS]HMS-Stout: Fuckin Maxon, Jones and stomper you boys are legends
[07.04.2019 18:28:17] Julia.Copper: both are in cambridge
[07.04.2019 18:28:18] Alucard: someone go assist him
[07.04.2019 18:28:36] Recruit.Donnagan: pod is not moving
[07.04.2019 18:28:38] Death: TRENT_ZONER was put out of action by a hostile vessel.
[07.04.2019 18:28:41] Garry.Shields: D/E/3/4
[07.04.2019 18:28:46] Garry.Shields: cambridge jh
[07.04.2019 18:28:48] GG-W-Cazadora: the pod just stopped
[07.04.2019 18:28:51] GG-W-Cazadora: Yberg where are you
[07.04.2019 18:29:13] GG-W-Cazadora: YBERG
[07.04.2019 18:29:16] Finesse: this ain't good
[07.04.2019 18:29:17] GG-W-Cazadora: THE POD LOST YOU
[07.04.2019 18:29:26] /fm event. can i cruise with it?
[07.04.2019 18:29:26] BAF|Cpt.Pria.Y'berg: can i cruise with it?
[07.04.2019 18:29:27] CONSOLE: The carrier needs to maintain 3k range or less for the pod to track.
[07.04.2019 18:29:28] GG-W-Cazadora: YBERG COME BACK
[07.04.2019 18:29:47] Event.Staff-Xalrok: No.
[07.04.2019 18:29:59] Essex: ?: Another cauldron of lasers and projectiles.
[07.04.2019 18:30:05] Essex: ?: I better stay out of the way.
[07.04.2019 18:30:07] Garry.Shields: WHY are you here?!
[07.04.2019 18:30:11] Event.Staff-Xalrok: the pod also has to be within 3k of you or less to follow you
[07.04.2019 18:30:24] Julia.Copper: Protect that beacon at all costs.
[07.04.2019 18:30:26] Escape.3: *Connection Re-Established*
[07.04.2019 18:30:26] Essex: ?: I was staying around to see how things would go...
[07.04.2019 18:30:37] Essex: ?: I'd rather not interfere.
[07.04.2019 18:30:43] Death: MRG|Pierre,Vaillant suffered a self-administered loadout error (Mine).
[07.04.2019 18:30:53] Finesse: ez
[07.04.2019 18:31:20] CONSOLE: The beacon carrier is still BAF|Cpt.Pria.Y'berg
[07.04.2019 18:31:32] Death: LN-Arthur.Maxson was put out of action by Rick.O'Sullivan. (Gun).
[07.04.2019 18:31:51] CONSOLE: Beacon carrier is currently located in B5 lower right.
[07.04.2019 18:32:01] BAF|Cpt.Pria.Y'berg has set \*/~Gauthier as group target.
[07.04.2019 18:32:01] OK
[07.04.2019 18:32:18] BAF|MN-George.Teeze: ok, all 0on him
[07.04.2019 18:32:49] GG-W-Cazadora: where is the pod
[07.04.2019 18:32:52] BAF|Cpt.Pria.Y'berg: where pod
[07.04.2019 18:33:02] GG-W-Cazadora: ok he's here
[07.04.2019 18:33:04] GG-W-Cazadora: move
[07.04.2019 18:33:12] CONSOLE: Some Bretonia players need to withdraw for event balance.
[07.04.2019 18:33:23] 2019-04-07 18:33:21 SMT : BAF|Lt.Kevin.Riley is attempting to disconnect from the server
[07.04.2019 18:33:31] Essex: ?: Stout actual, I think they got it handled.
[07.04.2019 18:33:39] 5th|LNS-Canada: ill hold back then
[07.04.2019 18:33:44] Garry.Shields: Holding off, will keep an eye out for stragglers.
[07.04.2019 18:33:46] [SIS]HMS-Stout: ?:Copy that.
[07.04.2019 18:33:46] Aylin: Holding back until needed.
[07.04.2019 18:33:49] CONSOLE: Cruise disrupting is forbidden.
[07.04.2019 18:34:14] CONSOLE: Beacon carrier is passing Bristol Mining Facility
[07.04.2019 18:34:25] BAF|Cpt.Pria.Y'berg: cover
[07.04.2019 18:34:27] BAF|Cdr.Eva.Flameheart has set Thierry.RenauIt as group target.
[07.04.2019 18:34:40] BAF|MN-George.Teeze: we do mate
[07.04.2019 18:35:10] Triakis: Don't flatter yourself, there more on the line here.
[07.04.2019 18:35:11] MRG|RNS-Nice: Louis: On the target.
[07.04.2019 18:35:14] [SIS]HMS-Stout: If you're not directly engaged in combat, hold off.
[07.04.2019 18:35:15] MRG|RNS-Nice: Louis: Fire.
[07.04.2019 18:35:21] Essex: ?: More Gauls, well...
[07.04.2019 18:35:31] LN-Arthur.Maxson: holding off
[07.04.2019 18:35:40] Garry.Shields: I've got something odd on my scanners.
[07.04.2019 18:35:40] [SIS]HMS-Stout: ?:That gunboat is ours
[07.04.2019 18:35:44] Garry.Shields: Gives me the chills, to be honest.
[07.04.2019 18:35:55] Essex: ?: What is it?
[07.04.2019 18:35:58] Garry.Shields: I don't know.
[07.04.2019 18:36:18] Essex: ?: Either way, Stout should be good against that uh, what was it called...
[07.04.2019 18:36:22] Essex: ?: Perilous, I think.
[07.04.2019 18:36:28] Garry.Shields: Wait a moment, Essex command.
[07.04.2019 18:36:29] [SIS]HMS-Stout: ?:One would hope.
[07.04.2019 18:36:32] Garry.Shields: WHY are you still here?!
[07.04.2019 18:36:39] Julia.Copper: Get it home, Captain!
[07.04.2019 18:36:41] Essex: ?: I have told you I'd stick along.
[07.04.2019 18:36:46] 2019-04-07 18:36:44 SMT Traffic control alert: BAF|Cpt.Pria.Y'berg has requested to dock
RE: Disappointment & Defeatism - Rantari - 04-07-2019
I wasn’t actually there but to be honest the real issue people are having here is that there was reason for a redo at all. An event was planned without thinking about how to make it fair and enjoyable, I read the original event post and messaged Steiner saying this will be over in 10 minutes a fighter will get the pod and be gone with nothing anyone can do about it. And with the exception of my amazing time prediction that seems to have been the result the first time around.
Really rules and restrictions should have been laid out in the original event post so everyone knew exactly was was okay and what was not okay. I understand what you’re saying about people giving up but you can’t really expect the side that under the original rules won to be happy about a “oh wait we made a mistake let’s try again”.
No offence intended to anyone who helped organise but I think the planning is the issue here. Saying that the losing side would have always complained because that’s what happens every event and we all just expect it now.
RE: Disappointment & Defeatism - Durandal - 04-07-2019
The giant log isn't necessary Y'berg, and I'm not blaming you personally. I'm blaming a prevailing attitude of defeat that has swept over the entire community. I'm blaming a lack of will to even try, I'm blaming paranoia, and I'm blaming those who assume the worst at every turn. I'm blaming the people who choose to see the worst the world has to offer.
RE: Disappointment & Defeatism - Miaou - 04-07-2019
The people putting on the event screwed up by changing how the event was to be done halfway through and restarting it after the original rules were followed. This isn't a "shame on the players for being pissed off". This is shame on the event team for not planning an event properly.
It doesn't even matter who won.
Look at any other sport, competitive video game, or general event. If the rules change half-way through and a restart is called after the event ends, everyone is pissed. Not because they lost, not because they won. Because the situation was voided, effort was voided, and everyone involved are told "you did it wrong". Stop trying to pin this on the "two teams" and understand it was the organizers who messed it up.
RE: Disappointment & Defeatism - Spectre - 04-07-2019
(04-07-2019, 09:42 PM)Rantari Wrote: I wasn’t actually there but to be honest the real issue people are having here is that there was reason for a redo at all. An event was planned without thinking about how to make it fair and enjoyable, I read the original event post and messaged Steiner saying this will be over in 10 minutes a fighter will get the pod and be gone with nothing anyone can do about it. And with the exception of my amazing time prediction that seems to have been the result the first time around.
Really rules and restrictions should have been laid out in the original event post so everyone knew exactly was was okay and what was not okay. I understand what you’re saying about people giving up but you can’t really expect the side that under the original rules won to be happy about a “oh wait we made a mistake let’s try again”.
No offence intended to anyone who helped organise but I think the planning is the issue here. Saying that the losing side would have always complained because that’s what happens every event and we all just expect it now.
This. This is why.
The event wasn't planned through the way it should've been, and the fact that the staff had to retcon the BAF's victory in favor of fixing something they should've caught beforehand is what caused the entire BAF side's morale to drop.
RE: Disappointment & Defeatism - Kaze - 04-07-2019
You're blaming the "I'm X you're Y, f*** you, Z is biased to you."
<3
<3
RE: Disappointment & Defeatism - Sombs - 04-07-2019
Quote:We've held a number of these story events so far and never once in old Admin team style have I faulted the players.
Yeah, looks like you're not pointing fingers.
We get it, you're currently trying different types of events. Just so happens that only certain types of events work. When doing events, expect the absolute worst. If anything happens beyond the absolute worst, it's usually good, but never expect it. You can't expect an indefinite amount of people to act the way you want it, not with the very loose environment the game and limiters like rules, laws and on-spot announcements can make. I already explained it with the example of the Vierlande event, where on-spot unspecific people were asked to switch sides for rebalancing.
If things don't work out like expected, just try to adapt to it. It's not exactly like we never had people trying and doing things before, so asking former event hosts - said old admins - for advise would maybe also a good idea.
As I mentioned earlier, the reputation of the dev team is very low at this point, and on many, many, many discord servers, the chats are on fire frequently regarding the latest patches - or other questionable statements/actions done by you or other team members. From what I see, the willingness to play along with the devs is extremely low, and you better come up with something that betters things instead of pissing off people willingly.
If there was ever a better time to listen to what the players are really craving for, and with that I don't mean stupid and unreasonable demands that are just made out of annoyance like "END THE GALLIC WAR ALREADY, IT'S LASTING WAY TOO LONG!!!!111", now would be the time.
Not everything has been bad so far, but people are as ignorant about the positive things as some people celebrating 110/110 in two events while otherwise the server is only half filled are about negative things.