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+--- Thread: Improve the Player Request mechanism (/showthread.php?tid=172384)
Improve the Player Request mechanism - Karlotta - 08-01-2019
Yesterday (and also over a year ago) some people hinted that unless something is submitted in the player request subforum, it is likely (or even destined by standard staff procedure) to get ignored by the staff, even if it's a suggestion that everyone seems to agree to in the discussion forums.
This isn't really mentioned anywhere on the public forum, and it seems more like a back door through which those "in the know" can get their ideas, suggestions, or demands in more easily than others.
That also seems to go for things that affect the entire community and not just the player posting the request, such as rep hacks for an entire ID, removals of an entire ID, things that are meant to benefit new people and not the person submitting the request.
The later two points are problematic for several reasons:
- People who aren't aware of this will get frustrated why their seemingly good suggestion is being ignored by the staff
- Useful ideas will be overlooked by the staff
- Submitted ideas can not be viewed by a large number of people, who could have better ideas or ways to improve them even more
- Posts can get lost by forum glitches or misclicks, or by forgetting whether they were already submitted or not
- People wont know why someone else's request was rejected will submit the same thing again
- Useful ideas will be overlooked by the staff
- Submitted ideas can not be viewed by a large number of people, who could have better ideas or ways to improve them even more
- Posts can get lost by forum glitches or misclicks, or by forgetting whether they were already submitted or not
- People wont know why someone else's request was rejected will submit the same thing again
It therefore seems desirable to:
- Have at least one "player request" subforum that is not invisible, for requests that affect more people than the person submitting the request.
- Give reasons publicly for why something was rejected
- Explain the mechanism for submitting such requests (more) visibly on the forum
- Give reasons publicly for why something was rejected
- Explain the mechanism for submitting such requests (more) visibly on the forum
RE: Improve the Player Request mechanism - Connor - 08-01-2019
Nothing to stop people posting their ideas here. Things don't get ignored like you think they do. Also there's no harm in poking people on discord and saying "Hey look this is a good idea can you look at it?"
However with that being said we are looking into a couple of things to improve these requests though they are still in very early talks.
RE: Improve the Player Request mechanism - teschy - 08-02-2019
(08-01-2019, 05:44 PM)Snoopy Wrote: Nothing to stop people posting their ideas here. Things don't get ignored like you think they do. Also there's no harm in poking people on discord and saying "Hey look this is a good idea can you look at it?"
However with that being said we are looking into a couple of things to improve these requests though they are still in very early talks.
First of all, it has been publicly stated by both the GMs and devs that they don't really read public threads, nor that they feel obliged to, unless they started them . Look at all the threads where people are literally begging for some dev input, and they just get ignored.
Secondly, the staff does get annoyed at people forwarding requests through private channels. Maybe not all of them, and it depends for what types of requests, but it happens.
Also, many of these player requests wouldn't exist in the first place if the staff acted on their own initiative.
Lastly, there's a slight attitude of 'don't tell us what to do' that clashes with 'we are listening to your feedback'. Yes, we know you that are 'looking into things' and they always seem to be 'early talks', but that sort of stuff has been promised for ages with no results.
RE: Improve the Player Request mechanism - Greylock - 08-02-2019
I personally poke @Markam most of the time before I submit a PR to see if it's even worth the time to submit it, or if it would get shot down instantly. Whether or not the last time was effective or not has yet to be seen. (Soontm)
RE: Improve the Player Request mechanism - Wildkins - 08-02-2019
i usually read through discussions on discord and the forums and give my input where possible but that's places few and far between
I think the biggest failing of staff requests to date which is the horse I'll beat long after it's dead is the failure to notify people when their stuff has failed, which just leaves people hanging forever with no idea what's going on
RE: Improve the Player Request mechanism - St.Denis - 08-02-2019
(08-02-2019, 08:47 AM)teschy Wrote: First of all, it has been publicly stated by both the GMs and devs that they don't really read public threads, nor that they feel obliged to, unless they started them . Look at all the threads where people are literally begging for some dev input, and they just get ignored.
Secondly, the staff does get annoyed at people forwarding requests through private channels. Maybe not all of them, and it depends for what types of requests, but it happens.
Also, many of these player requests wouldn't exist in the first place if the staff acted on their own initiative.
Lastly, there's a slight attitude of 'don't tell us what to do' that clashes with 'we are listening to your feedback'. Yes, we know you that are 'looking into things' and they always seem to be 'early talks', but that sort of stuff has been promised for ages with no results.
We see lots of discussions like this, with lots of opinions for and against.
What we don't see is any follow-up of a Player's Request asking for things.
What we do see is, Player's Requests with I would like/want xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. These have no Discussion Thread backing them up and for all intense and purposes appear to be someone's wish list/eureka moment thoughts.
We look at these and decide if they are a good idea or not/fit in with where the Story is going/etc.
Just for instance - someone puts in a NEMP Event Request - it is looked at from the perspective of how can it be implemented, does it affect what the Devs already have in mind, what are the consequences of doing the Event etc.
Now say the Devs implement the Request, next thing that is seen is - complaints of how, yet again, X is getting hit/it is not in my area of playing (again) and other such things.
If you look back over the last month and look at how many 'Discussions/Polls' have taken place, I don't thing I have seen one Player's Request to follow them up.
Are we ignoring them, NO, but the Community still wants everything else done and so those that are effectively 'priority', are the ones that get done.
Be aware, we read these Discussions/Polls and you will see a lot of for and against what is being proposed.
Does that then make it a good idea?
Do we only just listen to the more vocal Members (if so, they will get things done every time).
Should the Devs just ignore what they have in the pipeline/already implementing and just work on an idea in the Discussion Thread?
Also, don't forget, things take time and patience is requested.
I also see, 'If the Devs/GMs/Mods don't want to do the work, then they should step aside and let others do it'. Well, my answer to that is these people work in their spare time, put a lot of hours in so that you can play a Game (their play time suffers as a consequence). Most of you know ex-Admins/GMs/Devs - just ask them how much time they put in to doing this, sometimes, thankless Job. You just need to look at the turnover rate to maybe get an idea. People volunteer for the positions (possibly thinking they can do a great Job, but quite a few suddenly realise how muchtime consuming it can be).
So, please have a thought about that, when you complain that nobody listens to you, as there are also hundreds of other people all clamouring for attention.
RE: Improve the Player Request mechanism - SnakThree - 08-02-2019
If we started seeing approved or denied requests in public, it would be nice.
Mostly about SRP, Official Faction Perks and such. If you approve/deny them in silence, it might seem like nothing is being done.
RE: Improve the Player Request mechanism - teschy - 08-02-2019
(08-02-2019, 09:28 AM)St.Denis Wrote: So, please have a thought about that, when you complain that nobody listens to you, as there are also hundreds of other people all clamouring for attention.
I'm not sure if you were addressing me personally there, but if wanting to get an answer is labeled as clamoring for attention, then okay. I was speaking on behalf of several people that have gotten no response from the staff on official channels, not about myself.
(08-02-2019, 09:28 AM)St.Denis Wrote: Also, don't forget, things take time and patience is requested.
I was only talking about discussions that are several months old and have not been addressed in a meaningful way.
RE: Improve the Player Request mechanism - St.Denis - 08-02-2019
(08-02-2019, 09:33 AM)SnakThree Wrote: If we started seeing approved or denied requests in public, it would be nice.
Mostly about SRP, Official Faction Perks and such. If you approve/deny them in silence, it might seem like nothing is being done.
I tend to inform the person who put in a Request if it has passed or failed (but I can only speak for myself). I may, occasionally, fail to do so, but I think it is in the minority (depends if I get sidetracked or not).
RE: Improve the Player Request mechanism - SnakThree - 08-02-2019
Talking about publicising requests, so people see what is up in general. Not just person requesting.