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Questions have been answered - Avalanche - 10-12-2019

Edit: Thread has changed purpose. Now discussing if Discovery is still fun and accessible (from post 6 onwards)


Old topic: Hi again. I hope you all are well. I made this video which turned out to reach a larger audience than originally anticipated:



I want to do a 2019/2020 version.

1. New install instructions.
2. New and better in-game footage (not just all system cinematic shots).
3. Brief and scripted voice over explaining Discovery.

A good space game is in short supply and Star Citizen's lack of persistent progression means not many people stick around for too long, myself included. I do not play Discovery anymore but this is likely to change soon. However I want to see the mod population increase much more than getting in-game money and ships.

I ultimately need a camera ship (or the latest equivalent) so I can record NPC/Player activity and record cinematic system shots. I have 2 questions:

Q1: Does single player have a camera ship and commands to allow jumping around systems and base? If so what are they.
Q2: Does the multiplayer server have a camera ship and commands to allow jumping around systems and bases and follower players? If so who should I ask to help make this account.

This will make recording new in-game footage much quicker to do and thus increase the likelihood I'll invest what little time I have in a new marketing video(s).

Thanks for taking the time to read!


RE: I want to help (again) - Laz - 10-12-2019

(10-12-2019, 12:39 PM)Avalanche Wrote: Q1: Does single player have a camera ship and commands to allow jumping around systems and base? If so what are they.

Code:
base li06_05_base
cash 999999999
buy ship
launch (type la in the console to do it from the ship dealer fyi)
system Cambridge -> you are now in Cambridge
rep = 1 - everything is friendly to you


(10-12-2019, 12:39 PM)Avalanche Wrote: Q2: Does the multiplayer server have a camera ship and commands to allow jumping around systems and bases and follower players? If so who should I ask to help make this account.
Such a thing exists but must be requested.


RE: I want to help (again) - Dan. - 10-12-2019

(10-12-2019, 12:39 PM)Avalanche Wrote: Q1: Does single player have a camera ship and commands to allow jumping around systems and base? If so what are they.
Yes, single player have a camera ship and commands to allow jumping around systems.

(10-12-2019, 12:39 PM)Avalanche Wrote: Q2: Does the multiplayer server have a camera ship and commands to allow jumping around systems and bases and follower players? If so who should I ask to help make this account.
What Laz said.
Yes, multiplayer server have a camera ship and you can try your luck to get a Jumping account by coordination with GMs

Soon, I'll post here about how to do it in Single player and how you can by pass your Jumping need in Multiplayer.


RE: I want to help (again) - Sombs - 10-12-2019

Q2 can be solved without GM intervention. There are dozens of restart commands, and literally every single restart can be used to start out in a certain system with just enough money/asset value to sell the starter ship and buy the camera ship. All you need to do is make a new character, do any restart of your liking (/showrestarts) and then sell the starter commodities, switch to Connecticut (/conn) and then buy the camera ship, selling your weapons in the process.

That is done in literally just two minutes and people are still bringing their Ranseurs to watch event fights in the Omegas despite it being highly annoying and actually eating up more time and being less convenient to literally every involved party.


RE: I want to help (again) - Dan. - 10-12-2019

About single player camera ship, commands and Jumping.

Single Player Commands: Click Me

How to get Camera Ship in Singleplayer ?
Answer:-
1) Go into Singleplayer
2) Launch to Space (this step is necessary for Jumping).
3) Hit Enter Key.
4) Type: Base New Haven Station
5) Hit Enter Key. (You will teleport to New Haven station)
6) Goto Ship dealer
7) Buy Camera ship (But you won't have money to buy that ship so...do the 8th and 9th step)
8) Hit Enter Key and Type: Cash 9999999
9) Hit Enter key and Baammm you got cash now buy that camera ship.

How to Jump in Singleplayer:-
There are 2 ways use one of these 2 commands
I) system
II) base
Examples:-
> Hit enter and type: system California
and again hit enter. (You will be in California)
> Hit enter and type: base Alcatraz Depot
and again hit enter (you will be on Alcatraz Depot in California)
Remember.......to use these commands you should be in Space otherwise...game will crash.



About Multiplayer camera ship and Jumping.

How to get Camera Ship in Multiplayer?
Answer:-
1> Make a Game character.
2> Empty your Cargo hold and remain Dock on any station except the POBs.
3> Hit Enter Key and type: /conn
4> Hit Enter Key again. You will get a confirmation message in Green text.
5> Now Launch to space and you will be automatically teleported to New Haven Station, Connecticut. (Connecticut is Out Of Role Play space. If you launch to space from New Haven station you will be in Conneticut)
6> Goto ship dealer and buy Camera ship.
7> To get back to Sirius Space (AKA Role play space) hit enter key and type: /return
8> Hit Enter Key again. You will get a confirmation message in Green text.
9> Now Launch space and you will be automatically teleported back to Previous Base in Sirius.

How to Bypass Jumping need with camera ship in Multiplayer?

Answer:-
Use restart templates. >>Click Me<<
This thing will teleport you almost everywhere or at least near to your desired location.
Example:
> Make a Char and type: /showrestarts
you will get something like this. V
> Now select your desired restart. lets say I pick FreelancerEw
you will get something like this. V
> Re-log again
and you will be in Omicrons.
Now buy that Camera ship from New Haven Station, Connecticut by following what i told about how to get camera ship in Multiplayer and do the your recording.
I followed same steps to record Sigma PVP event

One more thing........ when you buy Camera ship in Multiplayer then goto Equipment vendor and buy Recruit ID too.
It will save you from any RP engagements/consequences because some times players don't check your ship and just destroy you.



RE: I want to help (again) - Durandal - 10-12-2019

Shiny videos aren't what Discovery needs the most. Let me be clear that I am not attempting to be disparaging here - I would like to see this project finished. But flashy media projects are not in short supply. Many of them have been put out over the years. What Discovery has issues with are player retention, of both new and old players. I'm going to make a generalization here and there will be some demographics that I miss, but by and large the players who could be kept and aren't fall into one of the following groups.

Group 1: New players who lack guidance.

Discovery is extraordinary difficult to get into for several reasons, but I'll touch on the big ones here.

- Unwelcoming environment. Discovery is full of elitists of one variety or another who are more interested in arguing how the game ought be made/played than actually playing it. The community overall projects hostility, and there's little to no thought given to how this looks to outsiders. If a new player makes it as far as the Discord, even then it's generally only the same half dozen players arguing about the same handful of perceived problems. There's also a plethora of unspoken rules, and it isn't difficult to get written off as an outsider if you accidentally break one of them.

- Dizzying array of lore. There's no single summary of Discovery's history that only covers the big plot points. Discovery's roleplayers have an obsession with minutiae, and at this point there are so many of those that this is how long the timeline is and that isn't even really what people need. A quick summary that covers the major events (Bretonia Kusari war, Liberty Rheinland war, Gallic War, Second Sigma Conflict) and the canonization of new NPC factions (and even then probably only the major ones, ie: Coalition, Enclave is what's necessary. Let players figure out which base blew up when and who won which battle on their own, by exploring the game world instead of being overwhelmed by trying to shove everything down their throats at once.

- Nobody to play with. This kind of ties in with the first point I made here, but few are willing to sit down and actually fly with new players. Discovery is not intended to be a solo experience and you are going to have a worse time flying alone, period. The glue that holds Discovery together is player interaction, and for newer players that interaction must be something ongoing and something that isn't hostile, due to how great the skillgap is. Which brings me to my next point.

- The skillgap. This wasn't a problem when Joe Average LNS numbered in the dozens and it was not difficult to get 20+ LNS online when a single well driven [HF] cap logged on. Nowadays the pool of those more casual players has diminished to the point that there is no force capable of standing against the RHA, Enclave (combined factions), or Outcasts (combined factions). This is especially a problem because all of these are unlawful and your new player automatically starts off lawfully aligned. It might shock some of you to hear me say this as former [HF] lead, but the group that does the raiding should, 99% of the time, get their asses handed to them by the defenders. This is no longer the case at all, and has turned the whole meta of Discovery on its head. What needs to be done about this is moving pilots to the other side or holding them out, but people just want to win. It sucks.

Group 2: Casual veterans who have lost interest.

This group largely exists as the result of veterans who were never staff, faction leaders, or even well known throughout the community having their factions die on them. These are people who have gotten over the newbie hurdles, but just want people to play the game with.

- Uninterested faction leaders. Discovery has a number of official factions with leaders who have simply become disinterested in playing Discovery, yet continue to sit on their power. I italicized playing because these people are still around on Discord, however their ideas of faction leadership seem centric to the development team catering to "needs" (wants) that are brought up weekly. This game previously had multi-year long development cycles where not a single change was made to the game, and the community honestly seemed happier and healthier for it. Nobody expected, let alone demanded, that the development team (the people who make the game), make it in their image, and quickly. This leads into point two.

- A disappearance of casual roleplay. Official factions were once the bread and butter of Discovery's casual roleplay. If you saw an official tagged ship online, you knew you could fly up to it and expect a good interaction. These factions do still tend to have more experienced members with a better understanding of roleplay and a more solid command of the English language, but they aren't flying and won't fly as long as their leaders make the game to be about capturing the next system or base, or getting the next ship implemented in game. A pair of [LN] pilots on patrol or a trio of Core| sitting around Freeport 11 could make all the difference in the world, but nowadays people only log when ordered to fight, and log off immediately after. I'm a little guilty of this myself, mostly due to time constraints, but even so all it takes is a pair of people deciding that they're going to stay online and develop their characters for a bit, and this is an effort that ought be spearheaded by OFLs, or at least by official factions. Bringing us to point three.

- Discovery has become materialistic. Some time ago, around 2014/15, Discovery's spirit ceased to be about characters in a backdrop and started to become about the stuff they could get. We now have a hollow, unfulfilling "endgame" of unique ships and scidata rewards. The character, the stories they could weave, the people they could become, is largely dead. SRPs and shiny baubles have been handed out like candy, and the truth of the matter is that most of the people who receive these trinkets end up leaving within six months to a year anyway.



So if you really, really want to help? Get out there and lead by example and be the change you want to see. PM the nobodies on the Discovery Discord - there are hundreds of them - and ask if they still play. If not, ask why. Get them to fly with you. Be that group sitting around roleplaying casually. Be the people helping new players in Pennsylvania and sticking with them, getting their contact details, and bringing them into the fold. Advertise, certainly, but make sure that there is something here and that the lights are still on when they get here.


RE: I want to help (again) - Shiki - 10-12-2019

(10-12-2019, 04:39 PM)Durandal Wrote: Nowadays the pool of those more casual players has diminished to the point that there is no force capable of standing against the RHA, Enclave (combined factions), or Outcasts (combined factions).

Outcasts are only having a 'good' numbers because they made peace with local factions that they are supposed to be in war with. After Gallic threat is gone, there's no reason for Bretonian and CR ceasefire to stay in place. Outcast would have much more profit of selling Cardamine in Bretonia without limitations or raiding Dublin for gold, going for direct clash with Corsairs over illegal activities in Bretonia. Bretonia was pretty much the only House where they fought directly in vanilla. I can't say that the current OC player base is stronger than let's say BAF or CR skillwise. When they fight let's say IMG and randoms only, of course, they are outnumbering. Solution with the Outcasts I see is for devs to resume natural wars that Outcasts are supposed to fight in Taus and Bretonia, end Zonercast type of Maltese diplomacy. Bretonia in general is the blindspot in the Outcast activity for years, it was excused with looming gallic threat, which now practically does not exist. This will majorly fix one of the points that you have mentioned.

As for Enclave, it's too early to judge, there's no stable player base as of now. Will probably be able to tell in 2-3 months. I can't see much disbalance in fights against BAF that we are having as of now. I guess you are speaking from experience of the Gaian event, in which case Enclave is indeed stronger than it need be. But it's Enclave's primary conflict is different and Gaians usually siding with BAF in the end. Which I don't actually mind.

RHA is indeed got more highly skilled players, but then again, some fights with BAF are kinda close. It's more about boosting Rheinland lawful and Corsair playerbase. But then it comes to the player factions working on getting more people. I hear from many people that it's a matter of current [RM] official faction, nazi fetishes, and whatnot. I don't know how to resolve that. Yes we are facing the fact that RM is preferring to log off when RHA is logging, and that's the problem.


RE: I want to help (again) - Mr.Cardaminum - 10-12-2019

(10-12-2019, 05:03 PM)Sicicega Wrote:
(10-12-2019, 04:39 PM)Durandal Wrote: Nowadays the pool of those more casual players has diminished to the point that there is no force capable of standing against the RHA, Enclave (combined factions), or Outcasts (combined factions).

Outcasts are only having a 'good' numbers because they made peace with local factions that they are supposed to be in war with. After Gallic threat is gone, there's no reason for Bretonian and CR ceasefire to stay in place. Outcast would have much more profit of selling Cardamine in Bretonia without limitations or raiding Dublin for gold, going for direct clash with Corsairs over illegal activities in Bretonia. Bretonia was pretty much the only House where they fought directly in vanilla. I can't say that the current OC player base is stronger than let's say BAF or CR skillwise. When they fight let's say IMG and randoms only, of course, they are outnumbering. Solution with the Outcasts I see is for devs to resume natural wars that Outcasts are supposed to fight in Taus and Bretonia, end Zonercast type of Maltese diplomacy. Bretonia in general is the blindspot in the Outcast activity for years, it was excused with looming gallic threat, which now practically does not exist. This will majorly fix one of the points that you have mentioned.

What attracted me to Disco is opportunity to try out geopolitical theories in practice. Yeah, disco's politics are simplistic. Yeah, the lore and players' actions are quite illogical at times, but there is still the lure of "international relations put to practice". Bretonia, according to the theory, is one of the most logical allies for OC: it is strong economically, it is distant, and shares mutual enemies. So should we be as OC put against Bretonia, the conflict will be stillborn from the very start for it would lack geopolitical logic, similarly to how most conflicts in disco lack it (just look at Rheinland-Kusari war that was not needed, had no solid reasoning behind it, and caused only further drama in Rheinland).

Do we lack gameplay with Bretonia being friendly? I doubt it. Liberty and Kusari are still out there, so is Gallia should we want to spread Cardamine into it. IMG is there, Crayter might become hostile, etc. But I highly doubt OC playerbase would raid Bretonia for no reason. If me, as one of the leaders of current OC am not reflecting the will of the playerbase and unofficial and official factions of OC not being pleased with me - I will gladly step down and will not put efforts in creating logical in my view diplomatic and political lore. But then please, keep the logic of inRP conflict in place then, explaining well why Bretonia and Malta suddenly become at odds with each other.

However, I think that this will just cause a trigger of people on both sides feeling betrayed with their RP cast aside as if it had never happened and instead of bringing activity to the OC - you will just kill the OC. OC have been pretty dead quite recently, they can get back to that stage when silent MNS would be farming missions in O Tau and that would be it.


RE: I want to help (again) - Enkidu - 10-12-2019

(10-12-2019, 04:39 PM)Durandal Wrote: Good points.

How do we persuade good PVPers to fight for both sides? There isn't much of an incentive.


RE: I want to help (again) - Binski - 10-12-2019

(10-12-2019, 04:39 PM)Durandal Wrote: Shiny videos aren't what Discovery needs the most. Let me be clear that I am not attempting to be disparaging here - I would like to see this project finished. But flashy media projects are not in short supply. Many of them have been put out over the years. What Discovery has issues with are player retention, of both new and old players. I'm going to make a generalization here and there will be some demographics that I miss, but by and large the players who could be kept and aren't fall into one of the following groups.

Group 1: New players who lack guidance.

Discovery is extraordinary difficult to get into for several reasons, but I'll touch on the big ones here.

- Unwelcoming environment. Discovery is full of elitists of one variety or another who are more interested in arguing how the game ought be made/played than actually playing it. The community overall projects hostility, and there's little to no thought given to how this looks to outsiders. If a new player makes it as far as the Discord, even then it's generally only the same half dozen players arguing about the same handful of perceived problems. There's also a plethora of unspoken rules, and it isn't difficult to get written off as an outsider if you accidentally break one of them.

- Dizzying array of lore. There's no single summary of Discovery's history that only covers the big plot points. Discovery's roleplayers have an obsession with minutiae, and at this point there are so many of those that this is how long the timeline is and that isn't even really what people need. A quick summary that covers the major events (Bretonia Kusari war, Liberty Rheinland war, Gallic War, Second Sigma Conflict) and the canonization of new NPC factions (and even then probably only the major ones, ie: Coalition, Enclave is what's necessary. Let players figure out which base blew up when and who won which battle on their own, by exploring the game world instead of being overwhelmed by trying to shove everything down their throats at once.

- Nobody to play with. This kind of ties in with the first point I made here, but few are willing to sit down and actually fly with new players. Discovery is not intended to be a solo experience and you are going to have a worse time flying alone, period. The glue that holds Discovery together is player interaction, and for newer players that interaction must be something ongoing and something that isn't hostile, due to how great the skillgap is. Which brings me to my next point.

- The skillgap. This wasn't a problem when Joe Average LNS numbered in the dozens and it was not difficult to get 20+ LNS online when a single well driven [HF] cap logged on. Nowadays the pool of those more casual players has diminished to the point that there is no force capable of standing against the RHA, Enclave (combined factions), or Outcasts (combined factions). This is especially a problem because all of these are unlawful and your new player automatically starts off lawfully aligned. It might shock some of you to hear me say this as former [HF] lead, but the group that does the raiding should, 99% of the time, get their asses handed to them by the defenders. This is no longer the case at all, and has turned the whole meta of Discovery on its head. What needs to be done about this is moving pilots to the other side or holding them out, but people just want to win. It sucks.

Group 2: Casual veterans who have lost interest.

This group largely exists as the result of veterans who were never staff, faction leaders, or even well known throughout the community having their factions die on them. These are people who have gotten over the newbie hurdles, but just want people to play the game with.

- Uninterested faction leaders. Discovery has a number of official factions with leaders who have simply become disinterested in playing Discovery, yet continue to sit on their power. I italicized playing because these people are still around on Discord, however their ideas of faction leadership seem centric to the development team catering to "needs" (wants) that are brought up weekly. This game previously had multi-year long development cycles where not a single change was made to the game, and the community honestly seemed happier and healthier for it. Nobody expected, let alone demanded, that the development team (the people who make the game), make it in their image, and quickly. This leads into point two.

- A disappearance of casual roleplay. Official factions were once the bread and butter of Discovery's casual roleplay. If you saw an official tagged ship online, you knew you could fly up to it and expect a good interaction. These factions do still tend to have more experienced members with a better understanding of roleplay and a more solid command of the English language, but they aren't flying and won't fly as long as their leaders make the game to be about capturing the next system or base, or getting the next ship implemented in game. A pair of [LN] pilots on patrol or a trio of Core| sitting around Freeport 11 could make all the difference in the world, but nowadays people only log when ordered to fight, and log off immediately after. I'm a little guilty of this myself, mostly due to time constraints, but even so all it takes is a pair of people deciding that they're going to stay online and develop their characters for a bit, and this is an effort that ought be spearheaded by OFLs, or at least by official factions. Bringing us to point three.

- Discovery has become materialistic. Some time ago, around 2014/15, Discovery's spirit ceased to be about characters in a backdrop and started to become about the stuff they could get. We now have a hollow, unfulfilling "endgame" of unique ships and scidata rewards. The character, the stories they could weave, the people they could become, is largely dead. SRPs and shiny baubles have been handed out like candy, and the truth of the matter is that most of the people who receive these trinkets end up leaving within six months to a year anyway.



So if you really, really want to help? Get out there and lead by example and be the change you want to see. PM the nobodies on the Discovery Discord - there are hundreds of them - and ask if they still play. If not, ask why. Get them to fly with you. Be that group sitting around roleplaying casually. Be the people helping new players in Pennsylvania and sticking with them, getting their contact details, and bringing them into the fold. Advertise, certainly, but make sure that there is something here and that the lights are still on when they get here.

Well sir it's nice to know the dev team is aware of the problems. But, you are the one we expect the solutions from! Not just pointing out the problems. When was the last time the dev team went through suggestions in the mod GD thread? When was the last time you took in staff? What can be done so players can develop story and rp on their own? I think there are ways to start solving all those problems that don't require major changes.

And I think disco badly needs advertising! We need some new situations and activities to keep the ball rolling. People need to see the game as alive to want to come here. There are lots of little ways to solve some of the problems caused by stagnation. Solve that problem, and maybe people play more, solve some of the other problems too.

Because I'm a casual veteran stuggling to maintain interest. there are a few things I can think of I'd like to see materialize that would make things more interesting and generate more activity, or at least, are worth a try. We really need the focus on activities, since like you said, we all have enough material stuff. The economy is jammed full, so 'stuff' isn't so valuable, low demand, people arent trading as much, because there's not much to do with the stuff after a while. What we need are things to do with that stuff. Over the years, we've moved away from easy plentiful uses of specialty equipment. Cloaks got harder and harder, weapons got nerfed. If we let people spy with cloaks, a whole new thing emerges, like real espionage. Don't talk in local if you arent sure you're alone! Or the NEMP's. There is a huge build up of them but nothing to use them on, no reason to consume them, no reason to grind more. If they could be used on an NPC target during a war, or for an act of terrorism/guerrilla attack of a small rebel group, this is yet another way to give players something to do. I imagine rogues or xenos or hackers NEMP'ing a corporate base, not destroying it, but causing damage! It could be a one off, or in war, used in combination with a player assault. Then either the corporate faction or Navy could send supply ships, or repair ships, and maintain. NEMP's just need to cause a fraction of damage like 1/8 or 1/4 so they can be used to cause damage but not destroy something alone. There are ways!

We could be hosting more advanced battles and 'wars' like that over long periods (days at least) like sieges for territory. Something real here attracts attention. Instead the aim seemed (for the last couple of years) to be to eliminate competiton or goals from the battles, when that is what we need to give players more reason to log out of desire to participate in a situation however they best can on their own, and not just to grind for stuff. Stuff is what we need to achieve goals. You grind for scidata for turrets, or load up your ships with the best of everything, out of hope you'll make a difference for your side in a battle. Long story short, some simple changes to the game we are already playing and we can go back to generating circumstances that create purpose in our gameplay and rp. *breathes*