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+---- Thread: Bomber Scattergun rant (/showthread.php?tid=175178)
RE: Bomber Scattergun rant - LaWey - 11-29-2019
Maybe its bombers were killer of fighters as class? When i joined its just were light bombers everywhere. It wasnt class killing?
Quote:Delete scatter-guns, allow the SNAC to instakill VHFs, but also allow VHFs to instakill bombers using their old torpedoes. Sounds equitable to me because then both sides will have their respective gimmicks back and will be equally miserable having to be recipients of their own medicine.That.
RE: Bomber Scattergun rant - Black Smoke - 11-29-2019
Yes please more insta kill things so encounters end even sooner. God forbid some fights actually end up taking more than 5 minutes
RE: Bomber Scattergun rant - Shiki - 11-29-2019
(11-29-2019, 03:36 PM)Black Smoke Wrote: Yes please more insta kill things so encounters end even sooner. God forbid some fights actually end up taking more than 5 minutes
Condition of snub being instakilled by SNAC bomber and snub being instakilled by cap are about the same. Straight line flying or long EKing. GIven a fact that in bomber you have one SLOW shot of a SNAC and with caps you have high refire and chance of newbie being instakilled by caps is many higher times in 5 minute frame that you described. You may stop being a hypocrite for a second alright?
(11-29-2019, 02:42 PM)Black Smoke Wrote: Should 2 bombers win against a single battleship? In my opinion no, and currently they generally can't.
(11-29-2019, 03:33 PM)Black Smoke Wrote: Also saying bombers are completely useless against fighters is not true. Are you unable to win without heavy damage and probably a bit of luck? Yes, but it shouldn't be any other way. This is why you have someone fly fighters to cover you on a bomber.
Then again, in battleship you don't need anyone to fight back two players in a class that is meant to kill your class. But in the bomber you need a snub to cover you without a chance to fight back alone. And that's what is called
(11-29-2019, 02:42 PM)Black Smoke Wrote: unbiased opinion
RE: Bomber Scattergun rant - Reeves - 11-29-2019
(11-29-2019, 03:36 PM)Black Smoke Wrote: Yes please more insta kill things so encounters end even sooner. God forbid some fights actually end up taking more than 5 minutes
You've done it with battleships somewhat infrequently, why is it any worse if a snub does it to another snub? I would highly encourage that you go about this with more of a critical attitude than a passive-aggressive one, doing that will antagonize the people trying to have a constructive discussion into an actual attack. And I would much rather that an actual solution be reached here.
My first suggestion when scatterguns were implemented was to give them the same treatment as the maxim, give them a fixed orientation with exceptionally limited turning and shave the range down to either 300 or 400. If they still prove too effective in chases then their energy consumption can be scaled up to make the core drain too drastic for spraying to be effective.
My second suggestion, and admittedly it's a punitive one. Is to let bombers instakill fighters, but for the sake of equity also let fighters instakill bombers. So that way everyone is miserable and upset about the others gimmick. The intention to this is to render scatterguns redundant by reasserting the SNAC, so that the deletion of the previously mentioned weapon isn't perceived as a ship-class murder.
What does the team think about those options?
RE: Bomber Scattergun rant - LaWey - 11-29-2019
Quote:Then again, in battleship you don't need anyone to fight back two players in a class that is meant to kill your class.In really you need CDer for BS, otherwise depends from setup, cruisers could humiliate it . Or, how it rather happens, bombers.
RE: Bomber Scattergun rant - Shiki - 11-29-2019
(11-29-2019, 03:49 PM)Anton Okunev Wrote:Quote:Then again, in battleship you don't need anyone to fight back two players in a class that is meant to kill your class.In really you need CDer for BS, otherwise depends from setup, cruisers could humiliate it . Or, how it rather happens, bombers.
He was talking about the bombers, two bombers against BS. Bombers are meant to kill caps? It's actully interesting how you considering Cruisers are relevant class to kill BS, not bombers.
RE: Bomber Scattergun rant - Hemlocke - 11-29-2019
Being able to nova ram snubs and have a guaranteed kill means they're in a decent spot right now, you can still mine to kill them since you usually out armor them, and in addition most bombers have hellfire arcs that will mess up a fighter.
By themselves most ships wouldn't be able to take on other ships if we're talking just about stats, but anyone can ramkill which is still a 1shot for snubs that ends encounters nearly immediately. So the scatterguns didn't fulfill their purpose and ended up being an OP fighter gun, in their current state they're fine as much as I wish I could troll snubs with those busted guns again.
RE: Bomber Scattergun rant - LaWey - 11-29-2019
Quote:He was talking about the bombers, two bombers against BS. Bombers are meant to kill caps? It's actully interesting how you considering Cruisers are relevant class to kill BS, not bombers.Ah, got it.
Hm, dunno for me it looks like it broken as small ganks meta what it had be, but not as class in general. We for example use them when need kill alot of caps, so one wing(3-4 bmbr) can effectively roll over multiple caps, and take 1-2 snubs/GB respectively to cover it from enemy snubs as much as needed to kill some caps. Cruisers wolfpack in this case require greater level of coordination, than bombers.
Well, while of course "fly with friends" can be ultimate answer, i agree that with current playercount small ganks setups should get more attention
RE: Bomber Scattergun rant - Black Smoke - 11-29-2019
Ah yes let me just sneak up on this snub that can fly more than double the speed of my battleship and insta him. What? With a bomber you can literally move as fast a fighter and he by no means has to fly in a straight line or EK for too long. He could literally be in the middle of a turn and you could come in from a side to point blank him with a SNAC. Does it happen often? No probably not, but this newbie you talk about that will die to battleship high refire guns obviously doesn't even know how to dodge or use repairs. I'm not sure what kind of thing you're trying to point out with that.
Stop acting like saying "Oh but if you can't 1v1 a cap with a bomber then a fighter shouldn't be able to 1v1 a bomber" has any sense to it whatsoever, because it doesn't. Fighters are a hard counter to bombers, bombers aren't a hard counter to caps unless in large numbers.
As for you Reeves, if you haven't noticed a lot of the instakill ability has been removed from battleships. The triple heavy mortars are no longer possible and everything above cruisers has had their nanos removed, resulting in way too much hull to insta it. If you want to insta a cruiser you have to go through it's shield first and then hit both heavy mortars, which is going to happen only at closer ranges really, while the range is completely in the cruisers control when it fights a battleship.
As for your suggestion to scatter gun changes, if the range increases to anything beyond 200m they would be useful in chases, all that would be different is how close you have to get to the target. Increasing the power consumption would be something to try. And the second suggestion is just a no because we should be keeping insta kill situations as low as possible.
RE: Bomber Scattergun rant - Shiki - 11-29-2019
Newbies know how to regen, but they have much slower reacting and often not using the hotkeys. Battleship fire of 2 second is enough to kill a VHF if it all hits. Considering caps are nearly always in the middle of snubfights they often intakill even more skilled people with sudden fire. But I suppose you wound't know as much as you are not aware of what SNACing the snubs in the real conditions is.
And that's my point smoke, bombers aren't hard counter to anything and they are not universal which is making the whole class useless. There's a better ship for every single task. Thank you for confirming points I tried to make of bombers being killed off as a class.