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+--- Thread: Allow FL/Pirate Cruisers? (/showthread.php?tid=175417)
Allow FL/Pirate Cruisers? - Binski - 12-12-2019
Just had an interesting idea.
It seems sometimes that smaller factions and groups have a hard time with firepower and numbers, and faction ID's sometimes don't allow for some thing's that the independence of a Freelancer or even a Pirate ID will.
The point would be to allow Freelancer and Pirate ID to use, and get at least 90% compat on the Hel and Scylla. It would then fall on INRP laws already in effect to be enforced like normal for foreign capital ships or illegal tech. Which would mean indi cruisers would be more of a thing in use in border regions, and tempt people to cross house space with them more (or seek others for jumps).
This would greatly boost some action to the pirates' side of things obviously, and it will also allow for a new thing:
Freelancer Cruisers/Destroyers
To what end? Well allowing some FL indi cruisers/destroyers would open up FL's to forming small bounty hunting/merc groups (lawful/quasi/unlawful) with higher firepower that could somewhat compete with BHG and/or Core. It would also mean that when it comes to base defense/offense, more players (that don't already use many faction ID caps) can own FL cruisers and at least to join in battles to augment a side. It may help give chances to defending bases more, by allowing the hiring of FL's for 'heavy security'.
Before everyone worries about the loss of exclusivity for the faction ships, with regards to any 'radical changes', remember that its been a certain way for over 10 years and it can't be the worst thing to open things up the later in the server's life we go. Until people flock to those factions in large numbers again, I'm thinking it will simply result in a bit more action, more to police, etc. (also, those factions can inrp offer deals to independent parties for allowing them use of the ships, or hunt down those using the tech without permission).
Anyone could own an FL cruiser/destroyer, join sides as they see fit, and offer more assistance to factions on a case by case basis. It would still be an advantage applicable for both sides as well. Then perhaps the issue will arise INRP over whether to allow FL cruiser fleets to operate or brand them as outlaws. FL cruisers/destroyers, basically made up of black market/illegal constructed ships would become a new card to play. Houses may want to use them [unofficially], or reject them totally (destroy on sight). Smaller factions will have a better chance though in enlisting 3'rd party help when it comes to base defense. Any base in distress could simply post an offer for defense contracts to willing 'captains' and have the option to pay for some extra ships to join in. In many cases, factions could always been hiring FL cruisers to join them in offensive/defensive actions. Having the option will boost the numbers in game for almost any big battle.
With regards to the Pirate ID, due to the restrictions on Pirate ID's rep wise, and being unable to even demand from military ships in house space, and inrp laws against foreign capital vessels being caught in house space, I can't see it as being too crazy! It may simply entice some folks to get out trying to pirate in them more, and spice things up a bit.
RE: Allow FL/Pirate Cruisers? - SnakThree - 12-12-2019
It's better to allow all non-generic criminals (except terrorist factions that have free reign over shooting anything) access to Cruisers, rather than allowing random generic pirates to field Cruisers
RE: Allow FL/Pirate Cruisers? - Charo - 12-12-2019
Some factions can't even use gunboats, but randos on the streets get warships? Nah, the Bustard and corvo already exist
Also what Snak3 said, some established factions can't use Cruisers either
RE: Allow FL/Pirate Cruisers? - Reeves - 12-12-2019
The Freelancer ID is already flexible enough, it doesn't need cruisers. BHG ID is dead as is, trying to instill competition by giving Freelancers cruisers is akin to beating a dead horse with something the size of several hundred horses.
Give terrorist factions gunboats and give the pirate factions cruisers. That's more than fair and equates things across the board given the differing MOs involved.
RE: Allow FL/Pirate Cruisers? - Greylock - 12-12-2019
But I so wanted to go mining in a cruiser.
RE: Allow FL/Pirate Cruisers? - Maltz - 12-12-2019
Few good bomber and VHF can pretty much destroy anything regardless os ID.
RE: Allow FL/Pirate Cruisers? - Binski - 12-12-2019
(12-12-2019, 05:52 AM)SnakThree Wrote: It's better to allow all non-generic criminals (except terrorist factions that have free reign over shooting anything) access to Cruisers, rather than allowing random generic pirates to field Cruisers
Years of this philosophy hasn't forcefully drawn hords to those ID's though. Why not let the attention shift over to more independent parties and let groups form as they go? This still keeps those parties faily limited.
(12-12-2019, 05:53 AM)Charo Wrote: Some factions can't even use gunboats, but randos on the streets get warships? Nah, the Bustard and corvo already exist
Also what Snak3 said, some established factions can't use Cruisers either
Yeah but I believe those factions should just be able to use cruisers too. The Bustard and the Corvo are not cruisers, they're useless in combat except against NPC fighters. You'd fly a bustard for a carrier, or a corvo for a scidata mining ship, but not to defend a base against a fleet of other caps.
(12-12-2019, 07:19 AM)Reeves Wrote: The Freelancer ID is already flexible enough, it doesn't need cruisers. BHG ID is dead as is, trying to instill competition by giving Freelancers cruisers is akin to beating a dead horse with something the size of several hundred horses.
Give terrorist factions gunboats and give the pirate factions cruisers. That's more than fair and equates things across the board given the differing MOs involved.
Meh but its boring around here most of the time. The status quo attitude keeps things stagnant IMO. My point exactly, BHG ID is dead because of restrictions, Core ID is the same thing. Terrorist factions should have gunboats indeed, but pirate factions already have cruisers. Rogues, Unioners, Hessians, Dragons, Mollies, all already use those cruisers and thats fine. The problem is there's no neutral generic faction the deploys destroyer/cruiser level ships that have as wide a ZOI as Freelancer. This is also why I suggested the Scylla and the Hel, and not all cruisers/battlecruisers.
(12-12-2019, 07:34 AM)Greylock Wrote: But I so wanted to go mining in a cruiser.
Pretty sure without mining turrets that'd still be a slow go. But FL factions could also then form small little indi IMG's in the same way IMG uses the Sagarmantha. If other factions consider them 'illegal', they'd be illegal mining outfits right away, defending their mining ops with Scylla's or Hel's. I know we always support curbing players to factions but after long enough time, this simple change would let more new factions be created, add some new ideas, fresh groups. The faction ID's will still be there, but many have seen their day. This would allow for some new factions to sprout up.
Many people are always looking for ideas to bolster activity. This simple change would open up each player to probably making up to 2 new medium capitals with armor and other equipment, you're looking at hundreds of millions per player generated to do so, or a reason to consume what's already sitting in banks a bit more, and I'm sure there must be some Mk 2 cloaks available which sell the least because they can only be used on Pelicans, freighters and destroyer/cruiser class.
On top of reasons to consume, it opens a whole new range of opportunities for players. I have no idea why anyone would not want it or vote against it. Its not really about forcing people to fly for faction ID's, but using the combo to open up a new avenue of gameplay and RP, and try to balance some situations out, like base sieges. I'm not making a Rogue or Unioner to fly those ships already because the faction's don't inerest me to that extent. For certain situations perhaps, but to fly a small cruiser, not really.
Also, for Freelancers, they'd still need to be hired under the current rules. A large group still needs to be hired and do some RP to get contracted to help defend or attack a base. As to pirates, a large group still can only defend its own bases, or be used as normal pirate vessels. I believe under such circumstances, pirates could simply be prohibited from sieging bases in the same way they can't place demands on house military vessels. We might need to tweak some rules around FL factions requiring minimum payments to attack/defend bases, or simply leave it as register to join a side in advance like registering for a bounty board, then show up and join in.
If not the Hel and Scylla, it definitely seems somewhat realistic at this point for the Scylla to have made it to the open market enough for FL's and indi pirates to be using them. Let the balancing work out inrp I say! Not being willing to do anything different is why the place has player count issues!
RE: Allow FL/Pirate Cruisers? - Groshyr - 12-12-2019
Will you allow civilian to use a tank? No? Same here. Gunboat is maximum.
RE: Allow FL/Pirate Cruisers? - SnakThree - 12-12-2019
(12-12-2019, 08:37 AM)Binski Wrote: Lots of text
Sometimes making changes also forces people away, so claiming that doing nothing is the reason for player count to drop when this game is getting older by the day is optimistic at best.
This change would not make any substantial gameplay change that would motivate people to stay. If people want to fly cruisers as unlawfuls, each house has an unlawful ID allowing to do just that. So there is a chance to do that already and allowing generic IDs to field Cruisers, would make those IDs over the top.
Currently bigger issue is how not all criminal IDs can field Cruisers, or that only 3 or 4 unlawful IDs can use 5000 cargo ships. That is bigger injustice than no-ZOI, no-diplomacy generic ID being unable to fly Cruisers.
RE: Allow FL/Pirate Cruisers? - sasapinjic - 12-12-2019
(12-12-2019, 09:35 AM)Groshyr Wrote: Will you allow civilian to use a tank? No? Same here. Gunboat is maximum.
Agreed.