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+--- Thread: Bomber Balance (/showthread.php?tid=176246)
Bomber Balance - Karlotta - 01-16-2020
When Bomber EMP and Energy Cannons were created around 2009, it was because SNAC, which was able to kill snubs with a single hit, combined with the fighter guns bombers could mount at the time, made bombers too good compared to fighters.
Now, SNAC no longer deals full instakill damage to fighters thanks to a flhook plugin.
Since then many people complain regularly that bombers are useless against fighters, and about "rock scissor paper" balancing, which makes choice of ship decide the outcome of fights, rather than skill or other tactics. It's a constant source of anger for many people. Anger at the mod, at players, and at devs.
The SNAC instakill was removed because it was a "seal clubbing tool", which enabled skilled players to "farm" inexperienced players extremely easily, which had the negative effects of:
- Ruining the experience for new people
- Driving them even more towards flying cap ships which cant be instakilled, but which causes a bunch of other problems aka "capspam"
- Driving them even more towards flying cap ships which cant be instakilled, but which causes a bunch of other problems aka "capspam"
I therefore urge devs to balance bomber and fighter guns so that both classes become more versatile than they currently are, in a way that doesn't cause the problems described above:
1. Increase bomber EMP+Energy gun velocity to 550 or even 600. This should make them able to hit fighters more. It also has the positive side effect of making aiming and hitting larger ships easier at a distance especially for new players, thereby making it more attractive to fly (and thereby learn to properly fly) snubs. You could even make snac velocity slightly higher, for the same reason.
2. Increase fighter gun ranges to 800 (same as bomber emp+energy guns), so they become more useful against slow larger ships like caps and transports to also make fighters more versatile and attractive, and thereby keep them competitive towards bombers.
3. Give fighters a torpedo that isn't as good as the bomber nova torp, but decent, (preferably in an aux slot or second CD slot because having to choose between CD and torpedo is again rock-scissor-paper balancing) for the same reason.
(not sure about last idea but: Since balance magic exists, also make minirazor do more damage to caps than snubs?)
2. Increase fighter gun ranges to 800 (same as bomber emp+energy guns), so they become more useful against slow larger ships like caps and transports to also make fighters more versatile and attractive, and thereby keep them competitive towards bombers.
3. Give fighters a torpedo that isn't as good as the bomber nova torp, but decent, (preferably in an aux slot or second CD slot because having to choose between CD and torpedo is again rock-scissor-paper balancing) for the same reason.
(not sure about last idea but: Since balance magic exists, also make minirazor do more damage to caps than snubs?)
RE: Bomber Balance - Shiki - 01-16-2020
Or just don't bother with any of it and revert SNACs
RE: Bomber Balance - Karlotta - 01-16-2020
(01-16-2020, 06:25 PM)Shiki Wrote: Or just don't bother with any of it and revert SNACs
I think it has already been made abundantly clear that this won't happen, because seal clubbing tools drive away new people and attract the worst kind of people. (apart from snacs being used in ways that a class intended to specialize against caps shouldnt be used for)
RE: Bomber Balance - Binski - 01-16-2020
I wont divulge into weapons but I already spoke on that in another thread.
My money would be on amalgamating all of these classes. We only need a few LF's for fast interceptors, most other fighters (many that got nerfed) should just be VHF's, and then bombers.
I'd like to see almost no difference between VHF's and bombers loadout wise, and make the only real difference their turn rates. Fighters would still be able to take on bombers, but bombers would do better.
In situations where there are caps on both sides, everyone would just take a bomber and be happy to dogfight with that if they could use fighter guns.
But I'd slow turn rates on fighters down to be only a little better than bombers. Fighters are way too fast turning compared to everything else. I think its funny that being insta'd by snacs is a problem for some, when everything working in fighter favor is what drove me to other ships, because of how fast they can kill without an insta weapon, or how great a computer I must need to be able to turn during a fight without it causing chops and stutters.
RE: Bomber Balance - Invoker - 01-16-2020
Suggestion: give them normal fighter weapons (4 forward firing class 8* guns).
Still slower turn rate and less DPS compared to fighters, however the rock-scissor-paper balance will be gone.
RE: Bomber Balance - Karlotta - 01-16-2020
(01-16-2020, 07:06 PM)Invoker Wrote: Suggestion: give them normal fighter weapons (4 forward firing class 8* guns).
Still slower turn rate and less DPS compared to fighters, however the rock-scissor-paper balance will be gone.
I thought about the same thing, but maybe its necessary to still fine tune bomber vs vhf guns in terms of damage and energy efficiency. For example probably bombers would be able to fire 4 vhf guns for ever because of their stronger power core, while vhfs can only fire 2 or 3 guns for ever even if they have 6 mounts. It's probably easier to keep them class specific for balancing and also its less work since they already exist. (if devs had to make sure that bombers arent op with one out of 100 fighter guns, it could be a lot of work)
RE: Bomber Balance - Altejago - 01-16-2020
How many goddamn threads about the same thing need to come up?? The people that need to be aware are aware. Stop the incessant nagging.
RE: Bomber Balance - Karlotta - 01-16-2020
(01-16-2020, 07:49 PM)Altejago Wrote: How many goddamn threads about the same thing need to come up?? The people that need to be aware are aware. Stop the incessant nagging.
It's a different solution than what the other threads suggest, and a dev ignored it when brought up in the other thread, asking people to make different threads for different ideas. So here you go.
RE: Bomber Balance - Baphomet - 01-17-2020
I totally agree with Karlotta, here is a suggestion
- EMP and Render velocity from 500 to 550
- SNAC velocity from 280 m/s, to 290 m/s, same as ASURAS speed
give it a go and see what happens
RE: Bomber Balance - Baphomet - 01-17-2020
Bump, bump, bump
We are not going away
. Bombers need some love. 70% of server agrees