+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Discovery Development (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Forum: Discovery Mod General Discussion (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=37)
+--- Thread: Zoner PvE (/showthread.php?tid=183158)
Zoner PvE - Cælumaresh - 09-08-2020
Hello folks. I am liking the mod update, however there is one particular thing I am not to thrilled about, along with a few others I asked.
With the recent changes to Delta, making its missions worthless, the Zoners lost their only spot for PvE mission running (or at least a spot that doesnt **** their rep everytime they launch one).
Now I know this was done to combat the ever increasing amount of lulzy lolcaps that came to Delta to farm missions, but it inadvertently also hurt people for whom it makes sense to do these missions. The problem with the lulscaps doesnt really get solved either, for most lawful lolcaps launched missions from Yaren, and they will just move to Capetown, and unlawfuls to Cairo.
What I am trying to ask here, to shorten a long story, is the following;
Could high reward Zoner missions be restored to some system? You could put them in for example in theta against the wild, or add Nomads to the system (for that true edge worlds vibe), if Delta is not an option anymore.
RE: Zoner PvE - RedEclipse - 09-08-2020
i agree on that, Zoner PvE removal was unnecessary. Almost every group whose used to abuse neutrality of Zoner base to pick up missions now has own PvE areas. In past weeks Freeport 11 wasn't abused much, I can only recall Zoner caps doing missions. After all, I understand why it was implemented, but players wanted to test new thing and came with their toys in a wrong place, but this is no more. Zoner players shouldn't suffer of that, abusers for now is a thin minority. Let us to enjoy some grinding like other factions, if Zoner affiliated NPC stations is not opinion - Cairo or Capetown will do the trick(though it can be same abused as Cael mentioned).
RE: Zoner PvE - Lythrilux - 09-08-2020
As the person who made the recent changes, I advised Zoner players to make a discussion thread about this. My two cents are this:
- High-level neutral missions provide zero investment to do, or consequence for that matter, unlike pretty much all others in the mod.
- High-level neutral missions create scenarios where it's very easy for random capital ships that shouldn't be in an area to turn up and start farming (and this of course has it's own plethora of issues). Having missions on Core/Order bases inhibits some of that by default, but offenders can also be managed via FR5. Even when groups did have their own PvE areas, for some reason they would continually come to Delta and be a general nusiance.
- Zoners themselves are not valid PvP targets (practically speaking) for any group other than Nomads/Wild. I feel this kind of cheats on part of the PvE system, which is the risk of other players as you grind.
- Zoners were the only quasi-lawful/neutral group to offer capital missions.
- I removed the high-level missions from all bases in Delta to funnel activity into Zeta.
When I raised neutral mission taking in the main Discord for a brief discussion, people did express that they thought it was not right that Freeport 11 could give out such high tier missions for the reasons above (as well as some others such as the idea of Colony Ships throwing themselves at hostile targets though I'll make it clear that this was not part of my logic when making this change).
If possible, I would rather somehow have Zoners giving missions against other human factions rather than Nomads (so as to emulate Zoner diplomacy management). I can't say I 100% understand how the mission system works though, as does anyone for that matter.
I did experiment with having Zoner mission givers on some of these bases, but it
RE: Zoner PvE - Cælumaresh - 09-09-2020
(09-08-2020, 11:48 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [*]I removed the high-level missions from all bases in Delta to funnel activity into Zeta.
One problem I see with this specifically is that FP11 was also the local RP hub. This evening it has been completely dead for the most part. I partly blame this upon the fact that everyone went out to see whats new, but it might cause a loss of casual RP in space in the future. Your thoughts on this point?
RE: Zoner PvE - Cælumaresh - 09-09-2020
(09-08-2020, 11:48 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [*]I removed the high-level missions from all bases in Delta to funnel activity into Zeta.
One problem I see with this specifically is that FP11 was also the local RP hub. This evening it has been completely dead for the most part. I partly blame this upon the fact that everyone went out to see whats new, but it might cause a loss of casual RP in space in the future. Your thoughts on this point?
RE: Zoner PvE - Lythrilux - 09-09-2020
(09-09-2020, 12:26 AM)Cælumaresh Wrote:(09-08-2020, 11:48 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [*]I removed the high-level missions from all bases in Delta to funnel activity into Zeta.
One problem I see with this specifically is that FP11 was also the local RP hub. This evening it has been completely dead for the most part. I partly blame this upon the fact that everyone went out to see whats new, but it might cause a loss of casual RP in space in the future. Your thoughts on this point?
I would not see how FP11 being an RP hub is intrinsically linked to missions. Before missions were added to it at all, it was an RP hub. Before the PvE rework, it was also still an RP hub. If anything, I think missions created the opposite effect.
RE: Zoner PvE - Alvin - 09-09-2020
Lyth, could you please elaborate how high level neutral missions provide zero investment or consequences ? Like any other factions, you still need to equip your ship property to take on these missions. There are also no bigger consequence for Zoners than any other factions out there. Eg, Core is hostile to Order, you take missions against Order and they won't hate you more or less than they already are. Same is applied to Zoner being hostile to the Nomad, with RP backing this as far back from the FP7 incident if you want to emulate "Zoner diplomacy management".
This is not to mention a very healthy and active nomad indy players base with their craze of Irra is often a real threat to Zoner missions runners, who constantly disrupts or kill off mission runners a lot of the time.
If Zoner is the only quasi-lawful group to offer capital mission, then start offering this to other factions to spread the love. That is not an excuse to restrict a specific group of players from doing that seems to be a reasonable activity already. Zoners are also NOT immune from being PVP targets, anyone who played long enough should know already. Corsairs and Outcast can always shoot if they didn't like what you had for breakfast, Core and Order can always demand nomad materials or enforce laws.
When a previous patch few months ago reduced the high end level mission spawn rates at FP11, this just drove a group of oorp indy leading Zoners, banding with an Outcast, Corsairs, Core and Order (not always together) into the heart of Iota,Psi and Major via the triangular route to shoot nomad npcs. That is real "farming" that should be discouraged instead of missions.
At this point it felt like FP11 is being deliberately restrict of its use, just because factions other than the nomads are unable to handle a brief peak of Zoner activity (which activity have already died down recently). If the reason was the "nuisance players", then I think it might have possibly just took a step backwards with Liberty now having direct cap access to the Omicrons.
On a separate note - what also doesn't make sense is the PVE zone in Zeta is just the Order and Core brawling at each other, right on the Nomad's front yard and right next to their base. Could we please add the same spawn to nomads with equal or higher firepower to contend with ? Seems rather silly we are in the "Edge World" and we still have 2 human factions locking heads right in front of a real horror to deal with.
Other than the above, I too found the rework has been generally positive, thanks for the effort put in.
RE: Zoner PvE - Czechmate - 09-09-2020
Well Core still has mid level missions from Nauru
I think zoners could have too?
(the 1.7-3 mill ones?)
You lose money farming them but at least get moderate incentive to stay and RP
RE: Zoner PvE - RedEclipse - 09-09-2020
Lyth, but what good in graving activity? Zeta haven't any Zoner base, every major NPC faction for now resident their PvE in Zeta, Delta could remain some activity aswell - for sake of fun let people do the missions. While Zoners can be seem pretty much neutral, as their natural enemies is *just* Nomad related factions - I've had a lot of interactions with Nomad players who knew of me/us farming PvE and had caught us multiple times - Delta is not only a Zoner populated system. If devs think FP wasn't a good place for that - move them to Cairo or/and Capetown if problem with base neutral status.
Zoners shooting other human NPC factions? Well, that just unfold reason why zoners IFF was separated. Let Zoner player factions to decide their enemies and do not force them by IFF thing. Afterall, Zoner Colony Ship is a cap and let people to use it. There's nothing wrong with people using ships, right? While inRP in was intended as colony ship, is a big ship with big guns. AFAIK it's gonna be nerfed into liner - so removal of PvE because of nephy doing missions is counterproductive.
RE: Zoner PvE - Lusitano - 09-09-2020
most zoner cap users in delta are just jelly farmers for making cloaking devices. i don't mind making low level missions since it is still pve/RP, the only difference is credits and loot! i think is strange is for example, corsair missions on corinth against the vagrants ... why since the new npc zoner faction that owns corinth is hostile to the jellies? we already had zoners missions against human factions, it was on omega 49 on tarrafal against the brets, and i would not mind the continue to have then, since they are still on omega 49 and we can't forgive what they have done.