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Remastered "Camara" Freighter - Printable Version

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Remastered "Camara" Freighter - aerelm - 01-12-2021

Remastered "Camara" DSE-720 Freighter
[Image: rFbPp]
Mesh
[Image: 730958065347854407.png?v=1][Image: 730958065347854407.png?v=1][Image: 730958065347854407.png?v=1][Image: 730958065347854407.png?v=1][Image: 730958065347854407.png?v=1][Image: 730958065347854407.png?v=1][Image: 730958065347854407.png?v=1]

Textures
[Image: 730958065347854407.png?v=1][Image: 730958065347854407.png?v=1][Image: 730958065347854407.png?v=1][Image: 730958065347854407.png?v=1][Image: 730958065347854407.png?v=1][Image: 730958065347854407.png?v=1][Image: 730958065347854407.png?v=1]

View in 3D - 01 June
Comparison with the old model


Camara is one of those ships that has quite a strong nostalgia factor for many of the older folk, since it was the newbie freighter back in the pittsburgh scrapfield days. It was adopted into disco from Konflict's industrial ships pack, and nowadays it serves as a freighter manufactured by DSE and available on civilian open market. The model was of a pretty decent quality for late 2000s, but nowadays it was starting to show its age a bit, so I was bored one evening, one thing led to another, and seems it's getting a fresh coat of paint now.

There's been some concerns around the ship's balance especially in post-TS iteration of freighters, so the proportions and weapon placement/arcs might receive some changes based on input from balance devs, but I'll be trying to keep at least the visual side of things as close to the original as possible.


Also,
Quote:There's now a Discord server for Disco Modelers to share their on-going projects and gather feedback:

[Image: PjaqDsm.png]

Main updates, major discussions and polls will still be handled via forums, but if you're interested in keeping up with the more incremental updates and providing real-time feedback, feel free to join.



RE: Remastered "Camara" Freighter | 10 January - Toaster - 01-12-2021

I would welcome a far more liberal approach towards a remaster of the ship in order to give it more of a Freelancer look, but as is, this is already a pleasant improvement.


RE: Remastered "Camara" Freighter | 10 January - sirlagsalot - 01-12-2021

Looks slightly fatter. Getting fatter at the benefit of what, having higher polygons count? Nope, not interested. Definately not on THAT ship. And i am already fine with staring at it from afar anyway.

[Image: INjCENd.png]
The old model used to have four turret mounts on its top and two on its belly. The new model, somehow, seems to have hell of a lot of those. For what purpose, other than cosmetic one? Looks rather excessive to me. You might or might not want to fix that, depending on what it actually is.

[Image: NG6zqjP.png]
Also, the old one has CM and minedropper mounting points shifted more to the belly. The new model has those shifted more to the sides. Which, to my taste, looks better. But, given the CM and minedropper model sizes, won't it cause hitboxes/textures overlap?

If anything, IMO, better add more lights for pimpship. Or animated external cargo pods. Or, finally, codename fighter turrets. Other than that - somewhat pretty, i must commend you for your modeling skills. Not bad at all.


RE: Remastered "Camara" Freighter | 10 January - aerelm - 01-12-2021

Yea, tbh I feel a bit guilty about having to do those changes since Camara was my newbie freighter and has a strong nostalgia factor to me, but those are all balance changes, not really visual tweaks.

Current Camara is actually almost as small as a Liberator from the front, which meant scaling it up to give it more hittable surface in that profile would've made it way too long from top/side, so the tweaks to its proportions were to give it more hittable surface without having to turn it into a broomstick.

Also not all the plates on the mesh are intended for turrets: 7 will likely be a CD slot (this is still being discussed, so subject to change) and 8 is for thruster, so the main change to its turrets is 4, 5 & 6. Most turret steering ships have some "natural limit" to their firing arcs based on the ship's geometry, but Camara being a pre-TS ship, its hardpoint placement doesn't account for that and allows all 6 turrets to have a 360 arc, which combined with its shape makes it an absolute nightmare to deal with when turret steering, so the main balance-related feedback I got when I was first bouncing this around was basically "make it not shoot everything everywhere". Redistributing the hardpoints like this will allows for giving the turrets more balanced arcs without any of the turrets being too limited or any of the profiles suffering too much. The ship might get an extra turret mount if the current set up turns out to be too underwhelming.

tl;dr - Camara has been considered all sorts of problematic balance-wise for quite a while now, so even if this new model doesn't make it in and the old model stays, it'd get a complete balance rework eventually. At least this way by applying the intended balance changes straight to the mesh, the new balance of the ship will also end up making a bit more sense visually, instead of having turrets on the ship that look like they could turn all the way without any trouble, but don't "because balance".

As for the clipping concern for CM and Mine, ye I'll be checking that ingame before submitting the finalized model to make sure it doesn't cause any issues. Just eyeballing it for now, it doesn't look like it'd be a problem, but those can always be moved if they end up needing more room to fit the larger equipment models (cloak and mine).

And since you mentioned it, setting up interchangeable cargopods for freighters (the same way it works for transports) is something I'm looking into, it's just gonna be a bit finicky cause freighter scales are all over the place right now. So that's likely going to happen down the line for all freighters that have pods in their models, but will probably have to wait for after the initial implementation of this. We'll see how it goes.



RE: Remastered "Camara" Freighter | 10 January - sirlagsalot - 01-12-2021

>Current Camara is actually almost as small as a Liberator from the front

I hear that a lot. IMO, you are technically wrong. That's my favorite kind of wrong.

[Image: NIrp4Pt.png]

Current Camara front profile is approx. 8431/4656 = 1.8 times larger than that of Liberator on your image. And a lot larger in any other dimension. Also, technically you would be more correct if you use models volume for example (as front is not the only side of a ship one would be seeing).

>7 will likely be a CD slot

Please, no CD on Cammy. It was removed for a reason. You have Kestrel (or whatever that eagle-freighter name was) for that.

>which meant scaling it up to give it more hittable surface
>so the main change to its turrets is 4, 5 & 6
>the ship might get an extra turret mount if the current set up turns out to be too underwhelming
>redistributing the hardpoints like this will allows for giving the turrets more balanced arcs without any of the turrets being too limited or any of the profiles suffering too much


Please, no more turrets on Cammy. You have Grizzly for that. Also, more turrets with worse arc technically may equal the same turret coverage, dps-on-the-sides-wise. Which may lead to "only cosmetic" changes. You might or might not want to consider it more than you did just now. Not to mention that stuffing a freighter with turrets is neither "cosmetic" nor "pretty" to start with. Freighters are not battleships, nor they are SHFs. IMO, having more than 5-6 guns makes them look weird. Also, IMO, you are supposed to consider continuous DPS output instead, the one that takes in account ship energy core, tech nerfs and energy core regen rate. With the latest snub adjustements, freighters no longer shine as birghtly as they used to.

>Camara being a pre-TS ship
>shape makes it an absolute nightmare to deal with


No, it is freelancer aiming and "aiming assistance" (crosshair auto-aiming pull, whatever you call it) that is the cause of said nightmare. It was discussed few years ago, as far as i remember. Also, there are a lot of pre-ts ships with no such issues (freighters, GBs and others), yet still OP in what you call duels (be that within one ship class - or between different classes). X-shuttle is one of such toys among freighters, for instance. KuBoat was another one, before it got upscaled. Some dessies still are. So, IMO, "pre-TS ship" is not a valid input. But let's not go there.

>tl;dr - Camara has been considered all sorts of problematic balance-wise for quite a while now

In the eyes of whom? Also, may i have the input for the number of Camaras and freighters in general used for duels and group fights, overall on the server and active regularly? Again, IMO, being unwilling/unable to put efforts in countering one is also not a valid input. But let's not go there.

>so even if this new model doesn't make it in and the old model stays
>complete balance rework

I'd rather vote for this "complete balance rework" option. Though i am not sure how one would even rework it, as it has little to no numbers one can shave off and not just finally ruin it, stat-wise (turn speed, inertia, core and so on). While cosmetic changes are nice and the model you made is sweet, there is no need to hurry with pushing those into the game, IMO. But thanks for doing something, i guess.


RE: Remastered "Camara" Freighter | 10 January - Binski - 01-13-2021

Its the least used ship in the game though, and the main reason no one flies it (for very long) is the lack of CD. Just like the Democritus. It would be nice to see CD's on all transports and freighters. Nice ships but needlessly neutralized.


RE: Remastered "Camara" Freighter | 10 January - Haste - 01-13-2021

The advantage to giving the ship more "normal" profiles is that it allows us to do things like give it a CD.


RE: Remastered "Camara" Freighter | 10 January - sirlagsalot - 01-13-2021

>>allows us to do things like give it a CD

I understand that well. Why would you want it, though?

IMO, CD was taken away from it for a reason and it is fine to have some ships that lack CD completely. I am afraid that giving it a CD would start a sinful cycle. As in: Little to noone uses Camara -> Cammy gets a CD-> People start to abuse its shape not for self-defence (let's be fair, that's why noone wants to fight it: chasing it is annoying and time-wasting) but for offence (such as piracy) -> Someone gets hurt and whines -> people listen to others and re-balance Camara in a way that it is has less offensive ability -> It turns useless and none is flying it, again.

What is the point of doing something you'll likely have to un-do or re-do? Wasn't balancing something supposed to prevent abuse of certain stuff instead of provoking said abuse of stuff, with likely need to fix it later?

Its the least used ship in the game though, and the main reason no one flies it (for very long) is the lack of CD. Just like the Democritus.

Just perfect, IMO? It lacks a CD in a very harmonious way. And that puts Camara in a position it nicely fits and little to no other ships would fit. Freighters were not assault transports last time i checked. A "Pelican", which has a CD, is not the most popular ship either. As for Democritus not being used a lot - i suspect that cargo bay size (and not just the lack of CD) may (or may not) have something to do with it, too.


RE: Remastered "Camara" Freighter | 10 January - Binski - 01-13-2021

(01-13-2021, 04:04 AM)sirlagsalot Wrote: Its the least used ship in the game though, and the main reason no one flies it (for very long) is the lack of CD. Just like the Democritus.

Just perfect, IMO? It lacks a CD in a very harmonious way. And that puts Camara in a position it nicely fits and little to no other ships would fit. Freighters were not assault transports last time i checked. A "Pelican", which has a CD, is not the most popular ship either. As for Democritus not being used a lot - i suspect that cargo bay size (and not just the lack of CD) may (or may not) have something to do with it, too.

Yeah but I always thought it better that ships have the same basic layout all around and if people want to use (repurpose) civilian ships of any kind as raiders, it would seem normal to me. It should be dealt with inrp. Freighters are only so powerful against any transport worth pirating, which is why I stayed with a Pelican to this day for some action, being small and hard to hit but having a transport powercore. It might make an ok bounty hunter. A ship can be whatever you want. Throw armor and guns on a ship, it can fight.

Yet you make using the design of your ship to your advantage like thats wrong. Isn't that part of the game? Make your choice, if you can make it work, good on you. Some are better than others yes, its bound to happen. Camara is not that small, at worst bring missiles. Hellfire rockets work fast on them too no doubt.


RE: Remastered "Camara" Freighter | 10 January - Saronsen - 01-13-2021

a freighter powercore, hull, and shield that's not all that much bigger than a fighter, and can TS/Zoom is busted and I approve of any and all changes to bring it in line