(10-06-2021, 05:01 AM)extremejm Wrote: Wanting to help defend my fellow Zoners, I purchased Nephilim. Neat ship, unfortunately I can't exit Omicron Kappa... The ship gets stuck in the jump hole... (doesn't fit?) After that the game locks up because it tries to enter the jump sequence but since it's stuck I can only sit there...

Please assist.

Laoch

(10-06-2021, 11:56 AM)ronillon Wrote: I had a same issue with Ranseur recently.

Which part of the ship needs to "touch" the docking point in order to quick dock?
Is it same for all ships or different for each one? Is there something like "docking hardpoint"?

(10-06-2021, 01:03 PM)Val Wrote:

(10-06-2021, 11:56 AM)ronillon Wrote: I had a same issue with Ranseur recently.

Which part of the ship needs to "touch" the docking point in order to quick dock?
Is it same for all ships or different for each one? Is there something like "docking hardpoint"?

There's a supposed "docking hardpoint" on the ship's models and that can be moved to change the docking point location. From what I know, it is "normal" on the Ranseur, i.e. just near the nose so you basically need to put your nose just before the blue docking light next to the stations.

As for Nephilim, I just checked and it's not that great and could be improved I guess. However, I am not sure I can do that before the upcoming patch.

It's a bit more convoluted than that, unfortunately. The JH docking is technically just based on one point, but that same point is used for other sorts of docking too, and in some cases tries to line that up with another point of the ship, so in case of most larger ships, moving the JH dock point to allow for easy docking for JH runs the risk of chain-reacting and completely throwing rest of the dock point alignments out the window, making it near impossible to dock other solars properly, and in some other cases (like Ranseur) the docking issues is entirely hitbox-related and moving the dock point won't make much of a difference.

Most people won't care, but here's how the game handles docking, if anyone's interested:

Spoiler

- Jumphole and Station docking just use HpMount regardless of rest of the hardpoints/hitbox, but orientation of HpMount is taken into account, i.e. it needs to be facing the dock point
- Tradelane docking is triggered by HpMount but also lines up with center helper of Root before actually initiating dock, this is also impacted by center of the shield bubble if its using an external one
- Jumpgate, if speeddocking behaves like JHs, if triggering the regular dock animation behaves like lanes
- Aside from HpMount and Root center helper, rest of the docking attributes are entirely based on hitbox and have nothing to do with anythin else in the cmp. Segmenting the hulls perpendicular to length of the ship results in easier docking on large ships.

So for larger ships that have trouble docking, the reliable remedy seems to be:
- Needs multipart hitbox, with Root set to be one of the parts closer to nose (but not too close compared to tail, front 1/3 seems to work best)
- HpMount by the nose of the ship, slightly offset Z is fine but the traditional "floating half a mile below the ship" messes things up
- Center helper of Root can be a bit more forward if needed (but putting it too far forward completely botches speeddocking gate/lanes)

Tho ultimately, because the game engine wasn't made with larger ships in mind, past a certain size everything autopilot related gets pretty clunky even if the hardpoints and hitbox are tuned properly, so it's more of a bandaid than a fix.

 
You can check the docking point (HpMount) with any dev tool that shows hardpoints. Lanceredit is the most up to date one, but UTFEdit is also good enough for just lookin up hardpoints, tho don't try to tweak them clientside, anticheat wont like that.

(10-06-2021, 04:07 PM)aerelm Wrote:

It's a bit more convoluted than that, unfortunately. The JH docking is technically just based on one point, but that same point is used for other sorts of docking too, and in some cases tries to line that up with another point of the ship, so in case of most larger ships, moving the JH dock point to allow for easy docking for JH runs the risk of chain-reacting and completely throwing rest of the dock point alignments out the window, making it near impossible to dock other solars properly, and in some other cases (like Ranseur) the docking issues is entirely hitbox-related and moving the dock point won't make much of a difference.

Most people won't care, but here's how the game handles docking, if anyone's interested:

Spoiler

- Jumphole and Station docking just use HpMount regardless of rest of the hardpoints/hitbox, but orientation of HpMount is taken into account, i.e. it needs to be facing the dock point
- Tradelane docking is triggered by HpMount but also lines up with center helper of Root before actually initiating dock, this is also impacted by center of the shield bubble if its using an external one
- Jumpgate, if speeddocking behaves like JHs, if triggering the regular dock animation behaves like lanes
- Aside from HpMount and Root center helper, rest of the docking attributes are entirely based on hitbox and have nothing to do with anythin else in the cmp. Segmenting the hulls perpendicular to length of the ship results in easier docking on large ships.

So for larger ships that have trouble docking, the reliable remedy seems to be:
- Needs multipart hitbox, with Root set to be one of the parts closer to nose (but not too close compared to tail, front 1/3 seems to work best)
- HpMount by the nose of the ship, slightly offset Z is fine but the traditional "floating half a mile below the ship" messes things up
- Center helper of Root can be a bit more forward if needed (but putting it too far forward completely botches speeddocking gate/lanes)

Tho ultimately, because the game engine wasn't made with larger ships in mind, past a certain size everything autopilot related gets pretty clunky even if the hardpoints and hitbox are tuned properly, so it's more of a bandaid than a fix.

 
You can check the docking point (HpMount) with any dev tool that shows hardpoints. Lanceredit is the most up to date one, but UTFEdit is also good enough for just lookin up hardpoints, tho don't try to tweak them clientside, anticheat wont like that.