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+--- Thread: Death and "Self defense" (/showthread.php?tid=19278)
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Death and "Self defense" - lw'nafh - 04-15-2009
Ok... So me and an unnamed friend killed these 3 vigilantes earlier right. Ok so when we are in Texas the person(s) involved come close to us with 2 other players that we never saw the last time and we engaged ONLY those 2 players.
Then those 2 vigilantes we killed (3rd wasnt there) engages us and calls it "self defense" when we never fired on them then when one kills me and I say it was VASTLY out of the rules from the way I understand them he goes on with "my shields didnt go down magically" when he engaged us first.
So is this allowed? To claim self defense in that situation?
Thanks.
Death and "Self defense" - Jinx - 04-15-2009
dunno if i understand what really happened - but...
when you kill a player, this player ( and ALL his chars ) must avoid you. - so ... a killed player should avoid the killer and all his groupmates for 4 hours. he can move back into the system where he was killed in - but only when the killer and all the groupmates are NOT there.
then the killer of the groupmates return there ( they are free to go back there ) - he must again leave. ( this applies to retreat, too. - only that the forbidden system does not "move" with the player that forced a retreat - but is only applied to the system the incident happened ) - the player that either thrusted a long way away so it was a retreat on thrust ... OR the player that FIRST engaged cruise when being fired at MUST leave the system AS SOON AS POSSIBLE - without gabbling about it, without staying in the system, even a long way off.
the player that KILLED someone can at ANY time engage the killed person again and again and again and again. ( that applies to traders being the target, mind )
why does it not apply to fighters / fighting targets? - cause those must stay away from the killer ANYWAY. - if they don t, they violate the rules by involving themselves into the affairs of the killer, hence affecting him. ( that includes being there, talking to others about the killers location etc etc - cause...... see..... they re dead - and dead people don t talk or influence others [ except posting a forum bounty on the killer maybe ] )
self defense. - if the killed player violated the rule by coming back to the killer, - and is shot at - he should at least have the decency to stay out of pvp or anything. - when he is shot at.... there s a clash of rules... sort of.
a player that is shot at can self defend himself - but only when at least 50% of his shields were depleted. - but since he violated the rules anyway by being there, that might or might not apply.
in general, many players don t take the retreat / death rule very serious. - very often i see players engage others and retreat - but NOT leave the system for 4 hours. a player that was killed must avoid the killer for 4 hours. - its not like there s much to interpret about it.
Death and "Self defense" - litlwicked - 04-15-2009
You're failing to mention some details. you came to texas and challenged us.
i told you we have to be shot at first or we can't engage.
you attacked our group.
I took shield damage enough to drop my shields all the way down.
Now you're mad cuz we won the fight? not cool dude. plus, your attitude kinda was messed up. Calling liberty 'capwhores' in RP, calling me a rules lawyer in RP when i told you that we couldn't fight without you engaging us first, mixing RP and OORP, and not dropping OORP in system chat when I asked you to.
To top it off, you came to texas, PMing me and my friend who was also in this issue, asking for another fight. so what's this all about all of a sudden?
Engagement is RPing your intentions, then following through with it. You did say you wanted to kill us. You did attack people in our group. And your exact words were 'Fire...' when time came to fight. You approached us while we were 10k+ away. Which was in another system all together after the initial fight. You came to us remember that. I reminded you of the rules 5 times, and all you could do was call me a noob and a rules-lawyer.
Lastly, you even followed us to bering after the second fight, and wanted to unleash your anger. which we did not respond to, cuz we saw the situation was out of control. We docked at freeport(being vigilantes) and let you leave.
want to review my screenshots?
Death and "Self defense" - Jinx - 04-15-2009
@little wicked:
when you were killed - and your killer moves into your system, you must leave at once. - you cannot wait for him to force you out again... unless you are a trader in a transport / freighter. otherwise a police char that killed a pirate in new york - and the pirate respawns in california - would have to fight and win against you in california again to force you out. - which means, you... as a pirate could move from system to system - forcing the police to chase you all around and fight "for every single system"
Death and "Self defense" - litlwicked - 04-15-2009
Jinx:
Your point is valid. But here is something i mentioned above. He whispered us and asked us for a second fight cuz no one else was online and I guess people were bored. My friends and I were in texas doing shield busting for practice when we were PMed to fight again. This is not a violation of the rules. Maybe we should have offered a fight in connecticut for kicks, but that wasn't thought of at the time.
Death and "Self defense" - Jinx - 04-15-2009
well - if he asked for a fight again... it would have been an agreement and no rules would have been violated. ( but yes... conneticut would have been a better place then )
when there was an agreement about engeging again and both sides agreed, no rule was violated and it would be a bit unfair to ask for a second fight and AFTER that complain about re-engagement.
it would be like a police char asking another police char for a sparring - and after that, he would report an ooRP pvp:laugh:
Death and "Self defense" - lw'nafh - 04-15-2009
Well... We didnt actually want a fight... We went for one then 2 LABCs came after us... Then... They come just outside of Beumont and sit there. Thats when it happened. We didnt ask for THAT fight.
Death and "Self defense" - matt_jh - 04-15-2009
Okay let me get the events straight
Earlier vigilantes and pirates fight vigilantes lose in New York
1st pirates want to fight the vigilantes
2nd pirates move to texas
3rd navy cap ships show up
4th vigilantes show up at 10k from beumont base
5th pirates comes out from beumont and attacks only 2 of the vigilantes
is this the bare bones of what happened?
Death and "Self defense" - Asgardian - 04-15-2009
Kinda ironic considering myself and another Navy member destroyed your ship in New York twice and then you moved to California and engaged us there.
Geez. Why don't pirates take the hint and just leave:P
Death and "Self defense" - Derkylos - 04-15-2009
Situations like this is why you log off when you see the respawn screen...