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+---- Thread: Manta Balance (/showthread.php?tid=19297)
Manta Balance - Tic - 04-15-2009
So i was just reading thru some ini files and i stumbled upon something interesting. Both Order and Corsair, two of the BHGs main enemys, have fighter by size smaller then Manta, but by stats about 25% stronger. So i checked everything and this is what i got.
STATS: Manta/Titan/Nepthys
Hull: 10600/13500/14500
Power: 12700/15000/15000
Agility: 1.2105/1.1220/1.1707
Bots/bats: 65/73/78
Time to 90% Max Angular Distance: 48/46/47
Now Manta is 20-25% weaker in everything except turning speed, but its speed is only 7-8% better then Titan, and only about 2-3% better then Nepthys.
That of course, wouldn't be a problem, if Manta was smaller then Titan and Nepthys, but in fact it is even bigger then them.
Here is a size comparrison.
![[Image: rucfnn.png]](http://i44.tinypic.com/rucfnn.png)
So now people always complain for BHs in Omicrons for cap spamming or not flying Mantas or even using other civilian ships, but why the hell wouldn't we? Our fighter is bigger and weaker then the fighters of opposing sides. Then take a into consideration that BHs are outnumbered in 95% of the battles(In Omicrons, but not only there.) and give as an actual reason for flying Manta instead of, for examble, GS or GB.
Maybe, if it was balanced, it would be used more. And if excuse for Manta to suck like this is its "better speed", then balanced it to be average between Titan and Nepthys. For example:
STATS: Manta/Titan/Nepthys
Hull: 14000/13500/14500
Power: 15000/15000/15000
Agility: 1.1470/1.1220/1.1707
Bots/bats: 75/73/78
Time to 90% Max Angular Distance: 46.5/46/47
Once you do that Manta usage will most likely skyrocket.
Now as far as weapon balance goes between these factions, both Order and Corsairs have higher damage weapons with better power efficiency, but BH weapons are more precise, so i suppose their balance is fine.
Manta Balance - Tenacity - 04-15-2009
I think the manta should get the 15k power core like the others, but it does have slightly higher turning/agility than the other two listed so it's lower armor isnt an issue.
The only thing that really bugs me about my manta is that the thruster is on the side of the ship instead of in the center... it annoys the physicist part of my brain when I see a thruster on the side of the ship fire off and I keep going straight =P
Manta Balance - Montezuma/Kukulcan - 04-15-2009
I am in favour of this, hunters do seem to have a tendency to cap spam. this would make a for a much more balenced fight, also more of a chalenge, which is always good to see.
Manta Balance - Eternal - 04-15-2009
From what I see , the Manta has a smaller profile from the front and from the top then the other ships - Like all BHG ships. Combined with a faster turning speed , the ship is made for jousting.
I hardly believe that because the manta has a smaller power core and a bigger profile from both sides , Bounty Hunters don't use it.
Manta Balance - Tic - 04-15-2009
Well it most likely is the reason. I know it's valid for me at least.
If it's to keep it's curent agility like Tena said, then Buff the armor to 12-12.5k, since Nepthys is only 3% slower but has 30% more armor.
Also from the front porfile it's about the same as Titan, since the shots only count for middle where the aim is, and its a bit bigger then Nepthys. From top they are all pretty equal, but from the side Manta is largest by far.
Manta Balance - Athenian - 04-15-2009
' Wrote:I am in favour of this, hunters do seem to have a tendency to cap spam. this would make a for a much more balenced fight, also more of a chalenge, which is always good to see.
Lol. Cap spam by the Hunters...the very idea.....
' Wrote:From what I see , the Manta has a smaller profile from the front and from the top then the other ships - Like all BHG ships. Combined with a faster turning speed , the ship is made for jousting.
I hardly believe that because the manta has a smaller power core and a bigger profile from both sides , Bounty Hunters don't use it.
The smaller power core is EXACTLY why I flies mah cruiser.
Seriously though, the Manta is nice and narrow from the front and the power is decent...ish. The real problem is that it lacks firepower for its job. As good as buckshots are, it takes ages to finish off an opponent - the chief one being the Praetorian which, with an armour boost, takes forever....even with a Mini Razor and a nub in the other cockpit.
From looking at the stats I am starting to understand why the Nepthys is so popular...it looks smaller, and is superior in all other respects.
I think the point Tic is making is that balancing ships depends largely on what you can expect to face. The Manta has to be an all-rounder because it is, in theory, used against unlawful ships everywhere.
edit: The Order power core is irrelevant as they all use energy efficient Nomad weapons.
Manta Balance - Tic - 04-15-2009
' Wrote:As good as buckshots are, it takes ages to finish off an opponent.
Also as they drain energy like crazy, Manta with 6 Buckshots can only fire for about 7 seconds until the power depletes.
Manta Balance - looqas - 04-15-2009
' Wrote:Seriously though, the Manta is nice and narrow from the front and the power is decent...ish. The real problem is that it lacks firepower for its job. As good as buckshots are, it takes ages to finish off an opponent - the chief one being the Praetorian which, with an armour boost, takes forever....even with a Mini Razor and a nub in the other cockpit.
This I agree with 100%. While Manta is quite a nice ship fly it really takes ages to wither down your opposition. With the current powercore you are a fool to go with a full gun loadout. Even with a razor you are in a minimum of 30mins fight with a Praetorian during which A) The capships you are supposed to be protecting are in flames or B) you need to evade the SNACs for the whole loooong engagement while trying to chip away your opponent and leave him be for long periods because you need to regen your powercore.
In short. Every time I fly my Manta I'm really in a fight for my life. Manta mercilessly punishes for piloting mistakes and lack of concentration in aiming.
For me the biggest thing is the powercore. It's just very weak and coupled with the thin armor makes you to be at a pretty big disadvantage against any fighter really.
Manta Balance - Jake.Holden - 04-16-2009
mhh I equipped it with 4 Buckshots, Imp. deb, sunslayer and mine etc. and I actually really like it. (I once faced 5 HAF Praetorians and killed 3 of em)
(only it seems Montezuma likes o kill me in his cruiser :S)
Manta Balance - Walker - 04-17-2009
The BHG ships are meant for high-performance...
Instead of the Manta I'd actually kinda wanna direct a few of you to the Hammerhead which is a rather nicer ship then the current Manta...
As for Manta improvements - Align the Thruster/CM/Mine launcher to run vertically parallel with the ship. Give it a power-core just below that of the Titan/Neph - I think there is a 13K one somewhere.
And maybe add a extra CD slot? So It can have both a Torp and a CD?
One of the main problems there is with the BHG ships is that they fail in fights where the enemy has over-whelming firepower...
Usually in some of the more generic vanilla craft your able to sorta avoid a enemy gunship or the NPC's most of the time.
The BHG Ships are real punishing for when the enemy has a Gunboat or two on their side or NPC's...
I fought two Titans - They couldn't hit me for squat but the 4-6 NPC's where wrecking me whenever I turned...