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+--- Thread: Tweaks for unlawfuls in Rheinland. (/showthread.php?tid=20168)
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Tweaks for unlawfuls in Rheinland. - looqas - 05-06-2009
You can read this one, but please let's have a discussion of the holes and travel in here http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=37665
To me it appears very strange that Hamburg has no unlawful bases (it's got that new Wedel Mining Facility). The Unioners have a very strong NPC presence there, so a Unioner base would be what the system needs.
The unioner base could provide other Rheinland lawfuls a base to operate from. I've very seldom have been in Hamburg in my Hessian char because of the quite long distance to fly.
Other Rheinland unlawfuls could stake a claim too to Hamburg system. Bundies could have built a base near the Frankfurt holes (maybe somewhere around G3), Hessians near the Berlin hole between it and Vierlande and Unioners to the vast inhabited space between Westphalen and Vierlande.
It's for others to decide but I find it very un-unsual that no other major house system, as far as I know, has no unlawful base. And I think it's time to rectify it.
Texas has none (unless you count junker base), but that too I find a bit odd. Since both Xenos and LR have a base in Hudson, leaving a system gap. So Texas could use a base too.
EDIT: Changed the topic to reflect better the things discussed here. And my own ignorance of Wedel Facility having addressed the Hamburg situation somewhat. I left my original post intact to let you know where the discussion started off.
Tweaks for unlawfuls in Rheinland. - Rashnok - 05-06-2009
The Wedel Mining Facility is the Unioner base where all their patrols are based out of.
The Bundschuh also have a base in Bremen which is fairly close to Hamburg.
Tweaks for unlawfuls in Rheinland. - Benjamin - 05-06-2009
It would be much better if Hamburg and Frankfurt and Munich (which are nicely connected to each other) were better connected to New Berlin/Dresden/Stuttgart (which are nicely connected to each other.)
As it is, when something is going down in Hamburg, you get all the unlawfuls taking the lanes to Hamburg, which is silly (unlawfuls in lanes is just not cool), but it's either that or 100k from dresden hole to hamburg hole, which leaves you 100k from anything else. So we're forced on to the lanes. Or yeah, basing off Wedel and Cloppenburg, which isn't terrible, but since I'm in the other two factions, which are shunted down the other side, it's not so hot.
Tweaks for unlawfuls in Rheinland. - tansytansey - 05-06-2009
Unless you can come up with a better reason than "it doesn't have one" then I'm going to vote no. There are plenty of lawful system that don't have unlawful bases, and every system does not need an unlawful base. Off the top of my head, Honshu, Shikoku and Leeds don't have any unlawful bases either. Colorado only has a Xeno base and California only has a Rogue base, and those two aren't on the friendliest of terms. Xenos don't have a base in NY, either.
Tweaks for unlawfuls in Rheinland. - Rashnok - 05-06-2009
It's also the fact that Rheinland has a godawful jumphole system. As an unlawful, you're essentially relegated to one half of Rheinland. The northern Hamburg-Frankfurt-Munich side, where no-one is but is the domain of the Unioners and Bundschuh, or the Stuttgart-Dresden-New Berlin side where all the stuff goes down and the LWB and Hessians hang out. Hell, you can see that based solely on which factions are most active.
What Rheinland needs is several things; first off, a Frankfurt-New Berlin hole, please. They're side-by-side, but instead, we get a Dresden hole. A Dresden hole in a terrible location that's only really accessible for lawfuls who have no business there. There's also the matter of the TWO Hamburg-Frankfurt jumps, which is just silly...
Bremen also needs to get connected. As far as I know, Bremen is only accessible from RM Guard and Hamburg, essentially cutting it off to pretty much everyone. Maybe replacing one of the Hamburg-Frankfurt jumps with a Frankfurt-Bremen hole would make sense.
Tweaks for unlawfuls in Rheinland. - looqas - 05-06-2009
I think Benjamin put it pretty nicely. Way better than I could have done.
The Wedel was a surprise I did not know until now. Good thing it got addressed.
The problem in itself are not having a unlawful base in every system, but rather how to move between different systems. If the travel is too tedious, then what's the point? Personally I feel flying 100k (like Dresden hole to Hamburg hole) and then fly 30k to 70k in Hamburg to get the lanes is a bit much. And this makes Hamburg quite unusable to occasionally patrol and check out.
I'm not lobbying for total access everywhere in a blink of an eye, but a bit of tweaking in hole locations that make travel time a bit shorter to make them feasible for a visit.
Suggestions for Rheinland.
1) Move the Hamburg hole in New Berlin to south of Kreuzberg. Or on the same level with Kreuzberg on the left of it. It would not help traders in any way if you leave the hole in Hamburg in place.
2) Move the jump hole in Frankfurt to Dresden more north. Maybe on same level with Mannheim (or E5)
But make them so that they are not really usable to be used as shortcuts for powertrading. These little tweaks could have a big impact on Rheinland lawfuls where they set up their shop.
To Kusari situation I can not answer since I don't have a single character in that corner of space myself.
Tweaks for unlawfuls in Rheinland. - Colonel.Tigh - 05-06-2009
The Unioner Base was just what the system needed, its fine now.
Bundschuh are well connected to Hamburg, and Hessians can stay at Wedel now. Unfortunately it is also a all too common Smuggler retreat now, hunting one before the base exsisted was: "shooting him until he jumped to Frankfurt, then keep shooting him in Frankfurt till he blows up".
Now its often: "Shoot him until he docks at Wedel, then listen to his loling chatter, and go home unsucsessful".
Oh can we make it a Unioner Guard base??, it would be not problem for the LWB (not shure about the Hessians), since the go to Macanzie as well, and it would be nice for the Rheinland police.
Tweaks for unlawfuls in Rheinland. - Benjamin - 05-06-2009
' Wrote:Oh can we make it a Unioner Guard base??, it would be not problem for the LWB (not shure about the Hessians), since the go to Macanzie as well, and it would be nice for the Rheinland police.
If you're properly/solidly repped as a rheinland unlawful, you'll be white with all the rheinland unlawful guards.
As for unbalancing trade - trade would have to exist in order to become unbalanced, right? The Liberty/Rheinland embargo has very nicely killed Rheinland trade. And if the jumpholes take longer than the lanes, even just a quarter of a second longer, they don't unbalance trade right? No one is asking to be able to get from Dresden to Hamburg in 15 seconds, but just something closer to the time it takes on the lanes. To get from Vogtland to Kiel area (where LN come to invade) takes ~2-3 minutes on lanes, but it must be closer to 10 using just jumpholes and cruise.
Tweaks for unlawfuls in Rheinland. - tansytansey - 05-06-2009
' Wrote:There's also the matter of the TWO Hamburg-Frankfurt jumps, which is just silly...The reason for the two jumpholes leading to the same system is another case of SP left overs. There was always a conveniently close by JH, and this is an example of them. Others include Sigma13-New Berlin, Magellan-Leeds, NY Magellan, NY-NY and a few others that I can't remember off the top of my head.
Since we're no longer SP compatible, JHs like these can be removed or relocated.
Tweaks for unlawfuls in Rheinland. - mjolnir - 05-06-2009
' Wrote:I As an unlawful, you're essentially relegated to one half of Rheinland. The northern Hamburg-Frankfurt-Munich side, where no-one is but is the domain of the Unioners and Bundschuh, or the Stuttgart-Dresden-New Berlin side where all the stuff goes down and the LWB and Hessians hang out.
I guess that is exactly the idea of the vanilla designers. I also don't see how it's different anywhere else....
Xenos are not really likely to operate in Texas, same partly for Lane Hackers. Gaians don't operate in Cambridge much, Mollys neither. Dragons don't operate in Shikoku, FA is not that common sight in Honshu.