5.1 Cruisers Feedback and Review - Printable Version +- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums) +-- Forum: Discovery General (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=3) +--- Forum: Community Feedback (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=627) +--- Thread: 5.1 Cruisers Feedback and Review (/showthread.php?tid=203561) |
5.1 Cruisers Feedback and Review - Fab - 06-15-2024 Since 5.1 released to the public two weeks ago I've been exclusively playing Cruisers, and I've analyzed their performance both in controlled and uncontrolled environments: Conn fights, group fights and events. I also took both extremities to take a better conclusion: I flew the Q-ship, the lightest and least energetic cruiser, and the Praefect, the most energetic cruiser and second heaviest. I concluded:
Now, a review of every cruiser weapon I got to try out: How to make cruisers better? Well, my suggestions concerning loadouts are the same: Move the "old" weapons like the storm, shard and impacts back to the front, add NEW weapons exclusive for defensive slots, kinda like how battlecruisers got their new heavy weapons. Additionally, Re-add 360 weapons that can be placed in either slot, heavy or defensive. They would have efficiency ranging from light mortar (lowest) to tachyon (highest). I'd also like to see an option for cruiser shields like the gunboats have. A "Duelist" cruiser shield which regenerates significantly slower (900-1000e/s vs 1600 current) but without regen power drain would be ideal for my play style. RE: 5.1 Cruisers Feedback and Review - JadeTornado - 06-24-2024 My feedback is mostly from a duel perspective, like, 90%. Some videos are just links because there is a limit on the embedded videos in a single message. Things I liked: Thruster and it’s recharge feels fine Cruiser Primaries are now viable not only for shooting down the missiles, but also good for component sniping Broadside feels fine - it is now much safer to deal cheap damage with big guns. Guns turn rates are fine Things I disliked: No guides or hints. Too many mechanics and they are completely unintuitive. While the duel against a good player may last up to 12 minutes, the beginners perish at around 3 minutes without being able to deal you significant / any damage. It is just too complicated to start without having read the patch notes and several dev diaries. It’s a frustrating experience. Make a good guide asap. Scanning weapons It would be nice to sort the weapons in groups while you scan a target. Because currently it is all over the place Mixed feelings: Engine Component The Engine is a logical addition in order to solve The Inter-Class Balance Puzzle. I liked the idea of having another way of defeating the opponent, although it is a much harder one than just dealing raw hull damage. On paper it looks like a win-win, but after testing it in-game I believe it is poorly balanced:
It turned out to be a nice feature that doesn’t break the timings we are all used to, adding depth to the gameplay. Unfortunately, it incites kiting. Previously, my attack abilities were not affected in any way, and all I had to do was to remember the timing when the shield comes up. Now, after every trade when the opponent is deshielded and I’m not, there are little reasons not to break off and regen some more shield to amplify your advantage even further. The use of bats turned from a defense action to a fight prolonging button. As soon as an opponent hits it defensively - you are breaking off and kite him until your own shield is at 100%, equalizing the chances. If the opponent chases and wastes his energy trying to hit - he’s doomed. If it is used offensively - the most effective way to play around it is to just do the same right away. Increasing the duration of the fight was one of your goals as far as I remember, but I wish it wouldn’t have been at the cost of somewhat tactical use of regens and the necessity to kite. I don’t know how to fix this since you took away some weapon slots that were used to punish kiting. Obvious downside is another button to press. At the beginning, it was hard for me to track the current mode of my shields. Maybe some little indicator on the screen, close to the ship's doll, would be useful. Overall, I like it more than dislike it. Defense and Heavy turrets New cruiser guns It’s just the same default guns with their stats redistributed, hidden by PVE grind. I fail to understand what’s good and fun about it. The only intriguing thing is a Defense Mortar, but oh wait: you cannot obtain it normally. Considering the lowered amount of unique weapon choices for the forward slots, it looks like a scam. The argument for not making smaller copies of the back guns for the front slots because of the distinctiveness of guns looks questionable now. Loadout variety and weapon balance While I am also not happy about the reduced number of weapon choices for each slot, I feel that the whole balance was built around it, so the players won’t be standing and hugging each other, trying to outDPS an opponent, like it was in the previous patch. I am generally ok about it, because fights are more interesting now. At the same time, even with the given weapons, I believe there are just 1-2 guns that you should use, because the rest are just simply weaker or don't meet the intended goal.
Heavy-Medium-Light Cruisers. Heavy Cruisers will have 2 Shield Upgrades and 2 Defense Turrets Medium Cruisers will have 1 Shield Upgrade and either 1 or 2 Defense Turrets Light Cruisers will have 0 Shield Upgrades and 1 Defense Turret I think you wanted to make us choose what role we are going to do on the battlefield by limiting the offensive slots and it’s fine while in fleet battles. But outside them it is super inflexible. Example: by switching one of the Tachyons on a Light Cruiser for a support weapon, like a missile or a mortar, you are effectively halving your DPS. If you encounter a Heavy Cruiser with 2xTachyons, it will have not only more DPS up-front than you, it also has a second back gun, which is also half more DPS than you have in the back. Also some minorities like most likely a bigger core and energy regen, as well as more armor. I thought: “ok, I have better shape and more agility, I’ll outmaneuver it and destroy the engines”. But I got skilled issued: 1) he just blasts me with the back guns as soon as I try to approach and stay behind him 2) he is still able to hit me mid-range despite my strafes, because Tachyons velocity allows. I thought: “ok, I can stay at maximum possible range and kite eternally” But I got skilled issued: 1) An opponent also knows how to dodge 2) My 1 back gun cannot outdps his 2xTachyons, while he generally has an easier time avoiding my Impact shots. 3) If the above doesn’t happen, I still need 20+ minutes to win via kiting. Not a single duel worth such time investment imo. It also should be frustrating for the opponent and exhausting for the kiter. I don’t know how to win this in regular 5-12 minutes, show me please. I learned how to barely win a Medium Cruiser though I doubt a lot of people would prefer to trade 2 Shield Upgrades and 2 Defense Turrets for 0 Shield Upgrades and 1 Defense Turret in the current state. I also doubt a lot of people would be changing their loadouts constantly between 1v1 and fleet battle oriented. More flexibility wouldn't hurt. Utility Little reasons to carry support weapons (missiles, mortars). Mortars are halving you DPS, like I said above. 2xTachyons are doing the job even better, you don’t need the rest, additionally because you can broadside now. Missiles are having a harder time after the introduction of Cruiser Flaks, but most importantly they just can’t hit small targets, like other cruisers. I failed to kill a newbie in conn purely with missiles, despite trying perfect trajectories. Arming time + slow acceleration makes it nearly impossible from the front, or he has plenty of time to shoot it down if I take more distance. From behind, the use of thrusters and turning by an opponent made my rocket turn away from him. I just saw a sharp ~15 degrees contrail turn, like it thinks the target is at the edge of the thruster’s flame FX. It happened at least two times during that duel. Completely unreliable, both. Pulses spam I don’t know if it’s a problem, but I’ll leave it here. Power core is now bigger, that means there is no reason to save extra energy for a 3 second hullbusting joust. The faster you deshield, the more hullbusting time you'll get, because now standing still is a disadvantage (it's like how you could have extended the hullbusting time before = stand still). Spamming 4 pulses gives a big advantage on approach. I fail to see the reason not to carry them if you are not going to snipe components with primaries, which you might not have the opportunity for. Thoughts Do I like the patch? No. Do I hate the patch? Also no. For now I am waiting for a balance pass, because as always we solved X but got Y because of Z. Then it would be safe to judge. Generally speaking, I'm sad that maneuvering doesn't matter much. In my opinion calculating how you are going to turn in the next few seconds and analyzing the same done by the opponent was very cap-like. Now we have a management game: distance management, shield management, core management, which is also interesting, but not that fun and engaging for me personally. RE: 5.1 Cruisers Feedback and Review - Dark Chocolate - 06-24-2024 As per my experience post-patch. Cruisers are highly in-flexible now. They only do good in fleet fights if you have a BS/BC covering you or something lel. The loadouts are restrictive. Other than codeguns, Tachyons are the only viable option to mount on heavy turret, Unless you're flying Rheinland or Bretonia lawful, and impacts on the rear guns The Engines are made of tissue paper. Even light fighters are a threat now. I'm okay with the idea that cruisers should be Hit and Run Style Glass Cannons, but in the current patch they are Paper Cannons RE: 5.1 Cruisers Feedback and Review - Fab - 06-24-2024 (06-24-2024, 01:14 PM)JadeTornado Wrote: -snip- This is how I feel about cruisers currently. They aren't as fun as they used to be, and are by far the most punishing capital class to use. RE: 5.1 Cruisers Feedback and Review - Devil's Weapon - 06-24-2024 Well considering Red just thrashed me moments ago by blowing up my big engine, I should start shooting for engines... I mainly agree with Jade's comment. I really wish there were more than 3 class 7 and class 8 options out there (and really only one or two viable defense and heavy turrets), not counting code weapons because not everyone has millions to spend on those. RE: 5.1 Cruisers Feedback and Review - JadeTornado - 09-08-2024 Nothing changed since. I understand that pure PVP is a niche thing in a pure roleplay mod, but prolonged standstill is depressing. I thought you would appreciate to know one of the reasons people stop playing the mod. Cheers. |