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+--- Thread: Gunboats (/showthread.php?tid=20402)
Gunboats - Derkylos - 05-12-2009
Possibly the most-altered ship class between 4.84 and 4.85, I have oft wondered about gunboats/gunships and their roles.
I'm sure we recall the outcry when gunboat weapons had their range nixed to be similar to that of fighters...which leads one to think: "What purpose do gunboats serve?" The majority of gunboat infocards mention something about them being "numerous" or useful for "rapid deployment". However, due to their current stats, if they come up against anything heavier than them, they are gonna have an awful lot of trouble dealing with it.
Supposedly, their intended role is anti-fighter/anti-bomber defence. Fair enough, assuming that they are capable in this role...what does that leave the VHFs to do?
If a GB can take out a bomber, on average, over 50% of the time (otherwise, it's not anti-bomber, right?...), a VHF most of the time, and a LF all the time, what is the point in VHFs or LFs? See a bomber swarm, counter with GBs, see a fighter swarm, GBs, see a capship swarm, bombers...and we leave our poor little VHF pilots out of a job.
Also for consideration, a GB is the largest vessel used in acts of piracy. Now, I understand the reasoning behind this OoRP (so the cruiser doesn't rape the trader...still avoidable if you take off the cruiser's CD, if you ask me...), but a bomber can (according to the intended role of the GB) deal much more damage to a transport (essentially a small cap) than a GB can.
So, question is, when should one deploy gunboats, and what should their targets be? I ask not from a current balance perspective, but from an intended balance perspective (couldn't care less if GBs suck against fighters, they are supposed to be their counters...right?)
In the factions of which I am a member, rarely do I hear a call for gunboats, and most people seem to survive with a VHF and a bomber, pulling out the odd cap "fer teh lulz" or to counter enemy cap swarms.
Just something that intrigued me...
Gunboats - Dab - 05-12-2009
What I've discovered is that VHFs were, once again, rather ignored in this new version.. Last version bombers were VHFs with Supernovas.. This version, same as last, the Gunboat accomplishes all the goals of the VHF, but with less risk and less skill required for it.
VHFs are used for three reasons; Transport escort, Transport attacks, killing other fighters and bombers..
All three of these are accomplished much more easily by using a Gunboat. I'm not calling for a Gunboat nerf, they are already low enough.. But VHFs need something that makes them useful. Either capable of hurting Gunboats more easily, or given a boost in taking out transports somehow. They just need a role where they preform better than a bomber and/or GB, so that they actually have a use. Right now all you see are GBs and Bombers.. There is little point to having a VHF currently, when there are two other classes that both preform the VHF's jobs better than it can.
Gunboats - Benjamin - 05-12-2009
Hey guys, remember light fighters?
Gunboats - AJBeast - 05-12-2009
Give em all 2 CDs. That could make them a litle more usefulll hehe. :crazy:But yea , i havent flown a GB yet , but ive found my VHFs a lot more useless. Most i can do is be on the tail of bombers disrupting their strikes. I never seem to have the firepower ( or aim ...) to take one down. Not without missiles anyways.
Gunboats - tazuras - 05-12-2009
' Wrote:...But VHFs need something that makes them useful. Either capable of hurting Gunboats more easily, or given a boost in taking out transports somehow. They just need a role where they preform better than a bomber and/or GB, so that they actually have a use. Right now all you see are GBs and Bombers.. There is little point to having a VHF currently, when there are two other classes that both preform the VHF's jobs better than it can.
' Wrote:Hey guys, remember light fighters?
Yeah, I have to agree with this. I think if light fighters were given a little more power then VHF's would have a roll that would be harder for bombers and GB's, taking out light fighters.
Gunboats - Irra - 05-12-2009
heh , now pirates aren't pirates anymore ..they become wealthy and they all have gunboats ... poor lawful ... especially those in official factions where rank don't allows you to have capital ... so what we have to do is kill group of 3-4 gunboats with group of 4 fighter/bombers .... and when gunboats missile spam ...then there is a problem , i think fighters should be capable of shooting down a gunboat with out 5:1 ratio ... probably to make power core better to shoot for more time ... if you put better weapons that could damage gunboat ... you have to wait 90% of time in fight for power to restore
Gunboats - Maskage - 05-12-2009
From what i've seen, Gunboats are anti fighter, bombers are anti gunboat, and fighters are anti bomber.
One bomber can very easily take on a gunboat. I personally have taken on a gunboat plus its escort (usually another bomber) in a bomber myself and won, so the gunboat is really very ineffective against bombers.
Gunboats - cmfalconer - 05-12-2009
Sorry Derk, but I have to disagree.
VHFs still have a vital role to play. Sure, Gunboats are supposed to be snubfighter killers, but a couple bombers will most of the time take out a gunboat...and gunboats are usually the first to die in engagements because of their threat to bombers/fighters.
Fighters however, can target those bombers and destroy them fairly easily with their maneuverability differences. A VHF shouldn't joust a bomber, but through careful maneuvering get on the tail and (should) stick to it like glue. Shaking a VHF is kinda difficult, and a LF nigh impossible w/o some good flying techniques.
It's really about skill...there's some good GB pilots that are very hard to down in any ship-class, and there are those that take to SuperNova's up the tailpipe and spread regens for the rest of us.
Gunboats - Jinx - 05-12-2009
to clear up the roles again... :
VHF are meant to be space superiority ships. - they are heavy fighters that go a bit further and give up more agility for more firepower.... for VHF, it is a fair trade-off... as they loose only little agility compared to their HF brethren but gain a lot more armour, shield and firepower.
VHF are best used in low population battles - like 1vs. 1 up to 3 or 4 vs 4. - when battles become larger, they suffer unproportionally to their advantages ( that means they ll still be effective, but other ships might be better suited )
VHF joust the best offering one of the very best burst damage of all fighterships.
heavy fighters are meant to be the backbone and mainstay of the fleet. - they are the true jacks of all traits. their price / performance ratio is unbeaten. - they offer very high damage with their ( usually ) 6 weapons, a very very large range of different types of weapons, too. - they have enough protection to survive long and enough agility to be flexible in any battle situation.
heavy fighters are best used in large battles. - their increased agility makes them a hard target. they can joust and chase nearly any other shipclass. even a lightfighter has trouble really "outturning" a good heavy fighter, while the heavy fighter forgives a lot more mistakes due to a better shield and armour.
light fighters are meant to be scouts and interceptors. - they can mount shieldbusters + explosives and be very dangerous for heavy fighters - but they suffer greatly for it. - a single nuke mine will destroy ANY light fighter in one single hit, regardless of armour upgrade. ( except the keeper light fighter )
light fighters usually don t joust but chase. - they add situational dps instead of sustatined DPS. - mistakes often have deadly consequences, but they are so hard to hit that its easier to stay alive when you focus on it.
gun-ships are small gunboats ( basicly the same class ) - their role takes the VHF further - giving up a great deal of agility for increased protection. - their DPS is nearly identical ( 4-5 weapon gunships ) to that of VHF but their gun velocity is greater - so its easier to hit.
they are meant to be hunter killers - and are MEANT to be deployed against bombers and fighters. - a gunship is not meant to be deployed against larger targets - which doesn t mean that it cannot deal with them though.
gun-boats are the larger ships. - often they got 5-8 guns and outdamage any fighter easily. they give up more agility for armour and firepower and are more capital warships than gunships for that matter - but really belong to the same class.
Gunboats - Inconcessus - 05-12-2009
That role list is really nice, however you forgot to mention against what should we use LFs, HFs and VHFs ?
Only against each other ?
Let me assume that bombers shoud be added to that list:
Then mind that even VHFs lack the firepower to take down bombers before they tear apart the capships that were supposed to be protected by the fighters, not to mention HF class only have acess to lvl 9 guns if I remember correctly and thier power core dries up faster than a raindrop in the Sahara, even if all of their shots land against a bomber with 40+K armor takes forever and only a mistake or two over that long period of time and they are SNACed or Mini Razored out of the skies.
EDIT:typos