Discovery Gaming Community
Consultation: Shipyard bonuses for Gallia and Rheinland - Printable Version

+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Discovery General (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: News and Announcements (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Thread: Consultation: Shipyard bonuses for Gallia and Rheinland (/showthread.php?tid=207432)

Pages: 1 2

Consultation: Shipyard bonuses for Gallia and Rheinland - jammi - 03-27-2025

Hi everyone, I'm opening a consultation to discuss the bonuses and recipes that are offered for Shipyard Components in Gallia and Rheinland. Factions receive bonuses on two Components, with each Component being produced by factions from two regions and featuring a blend of ingredients from those regions. Currently these are distributed as follows:
  • Avionics Systems (Kusari / Liberty)
  • Interior Systems (Gallia / Liberty)
  • Propulsion Systems (Kusari / Rheinland)
  • Reactor Systems (Bretonia / Gallia)
  • Superstructure Systems (Bretonia / Rheinland)
Currently there are issues where certain regions are disadvantaged due to the allocation of ingredients, incentivising production in certain Houses over others. Rheinland and Gallia are particularly affected by this, as the recipes for Interior Components and Propulsion Components are currently weighted more towards Liberty and Kusari respectively, while Superstructure Components favour Bretonia.

Given that the viability of Component production is a core part of the location and operation of many shipyard POBs, I'm raising the proposals for discussion before implementing anything.
  • Interior: Current.
    consumed = commodity_industrial, 100
    consumed = commodity_titanium, 100
    consumed = commodity_copper, 100
    consumed = commodity_xenobiotic, 100

    Interior: Proposed.
    consumed = commodity_industrial, 100
    consumed = commodity_diamonds, 100
    consumed = commodity_copper, 100
    consumed = commodity_xenobiotic, 100

    Notes: Production bonuses to be swapped from Gallia and Liberty to Liberty and Rheinland. This means the ingredients will have one mined product from each region, a non-HRC product from directly between the two regions, and a non-HRC product that is produced locally in both.

  • Propulsion: Current
    consumed = commodity_high_temp_alloys, 100
    consumed = commodity_ship_hull_panels, 100
    consumed = commodity_engine_components, 100
    consumed = commodity_niobium, 100

    Propulsion: Proposed
    consumed_dynamic_alt = commodity_cryocubes, commodity_high_temp_alloys, 100
    consumed = commodity_ship_hull_panels, 100
    consumed = commodity_engine_components, 100
    consumed = commodity_niobium, 100

    Notes: Production bonuses to be swapped from Kusari and Rheinland to Kusari and Gallia. This means the ingredients will have one mutually mined product, a HRC trade commodity from each region, and a non-HRC product that is produced locally in both.

  • Superstructures: current
    consumed_dynamic_alt = 100, commodity_gold, commodity_pirate_gold
    consumed = commodity_ship_hull_panels, 100
    consumed = commodity_ablativearmor, 100
    consumed = commodity_super_alloys, 100

    Superstructures: proposed
    consumed_dynamic_alt = 100, commodity_gold, commodity_pirate_gold
    consumed = commodity_molybdenum, 100
    consumed = commodity_ablativearmor, 100
    consumed = commodity_super_alloys, 100

    Notes: Rebalances recipes to use one mined product from each region, and one HRC trade commodity from each region.

Result:
  • Avionics Systems (Kusari / Liberty)
  • Interior Systems (Liberty / Rheinland)
  • Propulsion Systems (Gallia / Kusari)
  • Reactor Systems (Bretonia / Gallia)
  • Superstructure Systems (Bretonia / Rheinland)
Some of these changes may also require some commodity availability adjustments to facilitate access, so feedback on that point would be useful. Particularly in respect of Propulsion Systems, which would require Kusari and Gallic groups to acquire items that are mutually embargoed.

RE: Consultation: Shipyard bonuses for Gallia and Rheinland - TheSauron - 03-27-2025

(03-27-2025, 01:47 PM)jammi Wrote: Some of these changes may also require some commodity availability adjustments to facilitate access, so feedback on that point would be useful. Particularly in respect of Propulsion Systems, which would require Kusari and Gallic groups to acquire items that are mutually embargoed.

Why not shift one of the components to Gallia/Rheinland? It would put some emphasis on their economic partnership and make at least one gallic component buildable without having to jump through ten different embargoes to fetch the ingredients.

RE: Consultation: Shipyard bonuses for Gallia and Rheinland - jammi - 03-27-2025

(03-27-2025, 02:34 PM)TheSauron Wrote: Why not shift one of the components to Gallia/Rheinland? It would put some emphasis on their economic partnership and make at least one gallic component buildable without having to jump through ten different embargoes to fetch the ingredients.

I think Freiberg does already do this (at a markup), but I'd need to check.

RE: Consultation: Shipyard bonuses for Gallia and Rheinland - Steven.Hiller - 03-27-2025

know its not the toppic subject line

But had a question since the ship building started

What about junkers and zoners ??? why no bonus ?

RE: Consultation: Shipyard bonuses for Gallia and Rheinland - Synts - 03-27-2025

Changing Houses is a bad idea, many people built bases to produce Systems, so will the IFF and location of those bases be changed for those who have already worked hard for a long time?
A simpler solution is to change the materials needed to produce certain Systems.

RE: Consultation: Shipyard bonuses for Gallia and Rheinland - jammi - 03-27-2025

Adjusted the propulsion recipe slightly - Cryocubes can now be exchanged for High Temp Alloys. Basically, your engines components can either tolerate burning hot, or be forcibly cooled.

(03-27-2025, 04:43 PM)Steven.Hiller Wrote: know its not the toppic subject line

But had a question since the ship building started

What about junkers and zoners ??? why no bonus ?

Zoners are extremely problematic to fit into the current system, because it basically revolves around the idea of components being produced in specific regions, by factions associated with that region.

It might be argued that Zoners best fit Exotic systems, however you then run into the problem of Zoners then being the objectively best option for trying to produce those systems - it wouldn't even be close.

The combination of 5k transports and broadly neutral diplomacy means a Zoner exotics factory would always be strictly better than one run by the Corsairs, Outcasts, Core, Order, etc.

Junkers we probably do need to think about a bit more. While they do also have the whole ubiquitous spread issue, they're also effectively treated as unlawfuls by most House authorities and don't get 5ks.

(03-27-2025, 04:51 PM)Synts Wrote: Changing Houses is a bad idea, many people built bases to produce Systems, so will the IFF and location of those bases be changed for those who have already worked hard for a long time?
A simpler solution is to change the materials needed to produce certain Systems.

You are more than welcome to suggest a recipe that you feel can address the issue without region swapping.

RE: Consultation: Shipyard bonuses for Gallia and Rheinland - Lusitano - 03-27-2025

(03-27-2025, 04:43 PM)Steven.Hiller Wrote: know its not the toppic subject line

But had a question since the ship building started

What about junkers and zoners ??? why no bonus ?

+1 factions with shipyards have no bonus, and factions don't have any have multiple. don't see why zoners can't have a bonus on the system on omicrons and other on the taus. junkers could be the same since they are all around, just pick where they are stronger and that's ok. don't see any problem with that, but hey ... welcome to disco Wink

RE: Consultation: Shipyard bonuses for Gallia and Rheinland - Soban - 03-27-2025

(03-27-2025, 06:03 PM)jammi Wrote: Zoners are extremely problematic to fit into the current system, because it basically revolves around the idea of components being produced in specific regions, by factions associated with that region.

It might be argued that Zoners best fit Exotic systems, however you then run into the problem of Zoners then being the objectively best option for trying to produce those systems - it wouldn't even be close.

The combination of 5k transports and broadly neutral diplomacy means a Zoner exotics factory would always be strictly better than one run by the Corsairs, Outcasts, Core, Order, etc.

Problematic? Anything can be solved with 50k zoner marines in a can!
Joke appart It will always be a problem until zoner are split by area.

But we have something that could be done in the omicron with alternate recipe for zoners, ofc it will be more expensive but well that's the price of independence.
Also closer sell point or another commodity could be use for super_alloys/ablativearmor. As the later can't be transported by 5k zoner.


Reactor Systems: Proposed
as stated by infocard
No component of a ship is more dangerous to build than the reactor. From the fission reactors on fighters to the massive iridium chambers on battleships...

consumed = commodity_mox_fuel, 100
consumed = commodity_energy_field_equip, 100
consumed = commodity_super_alloys, 100
consumed_dynamic_alt= commodity_iridium, 100

Superstructure Systems: Proposed
Also the sigma is close and aluminum has no ship part uses and is actually the backbone of spacecraft structures due to their lightweight nature and high strength (thanks wiki)

consumed = commodity_aluminum, 100
consumed = commodity_ship_hull_panels, 100
consumed = commodity_ablativearmor, 100
consumed = commodity_super_alloys, 100

RE: Consultation: Shipyard bonuses for Gallia and Rheinland - The_Godslayer - 03-27-2025

(03-27-2025, 06:03 PM)jammi Wrote: Junkers we probably do need to think about a bit more. While they do also have the whole ubiquitous spread issue, they're also effectively treated as unlawfuls by most House authorities and don't get 5ks.

If you make Junkers able to produce these cool construction materials I will shill out all manner of roleplay. Deal?

RE: Consultation: Shipyard bonuses for Gallia and Rheinland - rwx - 03-27-2025

I'd like to throw in my two cents.

Regarding the old system I'm still think, that propulsion systems should use H-Fuel as ingredients and switching from Gold to Silver for Superstructure might be best.
Why? Because both commodities are mineable by the houses with the component boni. It can be used to focus on border skirmishes and corporate wars. As stated before, High-Temperature alloy would already contain Niobium (see 2.) and is reachable by Kusari and Rheinland.

Regardless of that I'd like to raise a few points for your changes:
  1. If the Liberty-Kusari conflicts progresses, Rheinland might be the lawful monopoly for Kusari to get Interior systems
  2. It might be a good idea to give shipping corporations player bases the possibility to manufactor non-mineable HRC. They haven't necessarily to be an ingredients for the ship components. They could also be manufactored out of low-value commodities, so one can still outperform local npc prices (or you tweak the production).
  3. It might be good to review the NPC buy-prices for ship components, as there are limited players and limited ships, the demand is not endless. If there are no new ships the production of components would be a waste
  4. Add more ship recipes please. I understand you had to start at some point, but enabling the possibility to produce house capitals below npc prices would give options.
  5. Are the diamonds of Interiors replaceable with Hessian tears? Otherwise unlawful factions might loose the ability to run their own component production.
  6. In your proposed Superstructures recipe I see Molybdenum. Will Daumann get mining and refining boni for that commodity or will this still be GMS mining only?

As always, please consider these points as my opinion and suggestion as a player. It does not claim to represent the optimal solution.