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+---- Thread: Gunboats (/showthread.php?tid=21165)
Gunboats - Dab - 05-30-2009
As I'm sure many people here have noticed, Gunboat spam is even worse than in 4.84. This is a rather disappointing since 4.85 was meant to fix that. The real problem isn't that the Gunboats are too good against fighters or bombers. The real problem is that they are the only ship class in Disco that is fully multi-role. They can fight everything from a fighter to a battleship.
When two gunboats can destroy a well-armored and armed battleship with little, or even no damage to themselves, something is very wrong. Their ability to do this rests on the fact that one; At a range of 1100m, they can dodge everything a cruiser fires at it, and battleship's only weapon that can hit at that range is a battlerazor. At 1300m, not even that can hit if the gunboat pilot knows what he is doing. However, gunboat's battlerazors and pulse cannons have a maximum range of 1500m. So they can easily sit at 1300-1500m from another capship and pound away. Battleships can't go above 90 without cruise, and cruisers can't go any faster with thrusters. But a gunboat's agility allows it to dodge anything either of those classes throws at it..
Gunboats and Gunships were made for the specific role of destroying fighters and bombers. With their battlerazors and pulse cannons, they can kill anything they go after. I'm not calling for a nerf on either weapon. I do, however, think that a range limitation on those BRs and Pulses is in order. Battlerazors are meant for combat against smaller ships. Battleship BRs are meant to hit GBs, fighters, and bombers. Gunboat's are meant to hit fighters and bombers. A gunboat is -not- meant for killing battleships. With the current range available on their BRS, that's a very easy thing to do.
To fix this I think a maximum range for BRs, and maybe pulses as well, should be set to 1,000m. With Gunboat's agility, a pack of 4 or so can still kill a battleship. But a group of only two gunboats won't be able to any longer, and they shouldn't. This will not harm the anti-fighter and anti-bomber roles of the gunboats. Firing BRs at fighters and bombers at a range of 1,500 won't hit anyway, unless the bomber pilot has no idea how to fly. From my own experience with GBs, firing BRs at a range of 300-600m is best for hitting fighters and bombers.
But something must be done about this, or we'll have bigger GB spam problems than we did last version. When you fly around for 20 minutes and see 5 pirate Gunboats, something is seriously wrong.. Also, with Gunboats having this extremely easy multi-role status, bombers have lost their purpose. These days, GBs are used to counter GBs, GBs are used to counter cruisers. And GBs are used to counter battleships.. This is not balance.
Gunboats - Elsdragon - 05-30-2009
I honestly only use Cerbsd for fighter combat.ANd a pulse.And a missle. NEver used razors in fighter comabt. Is it good for that?
Gunboats - Blodo - 05-30-2009
I agree that gunboat anti-cap guns have a bit big range at the moment. However, we need to decide what we want to do: do we push gunboats towards specialisations, or towards purely anti-fighter/bomber role. If we decide to allow gunboats to be specialised anti-cap, then we need to figure out some other nerf to razor/pulse than range one I think, otherwise we will simply encourage using a anti-cap loadout against fighters and bombers as people seem to now.
Gunboats - Nightmouse - 05-30-2009
Indeed, I noticed the same, the only thing that has improved since the previous version is the missiles spam, but as things are now, my VHF gets chased by gunboats all the time, which isn't a lot of fun.
I'd say the gunboats should have less range than the heavier caps, for the simple fact they are much more agile.
Gunboats - Dab - 05-30-2009
I'd prefer going back to purely anti-fighter and anti-bomber Blodo. That's what GBs were built for. They were never built to take on larger and more powerful capships. Bombers are meant to combat cruisers and battleships. If we make gunboats capable of doing that, the bomber will no longer have a use. It'll just be a much more fragile version of the gunboat that fighters can kill more easily. Gunboats have more defenses, more firepower.
Gunboats - Othman - 05-30-2009
GBs are too much trade of all jacks right now. Their razor and pulse guns definitely need a range reduction. A multi role ranging from anti fighter to anti battleship gives it a bloody vast room for being spammed.
Gunboats - Sprolf - 05-30-2009
Let it be known that I'm a gunboat pilot, so I should be against what Dab is saying.
My personal bias set forth, I shall now voice what I'm thinking.
I see what you're saying here and acknowledge the wisdom in your reasoning.
Gunboat weapons should be shorter range, and Battleship should be the ridiculously long range ones.
In other words, Dab
/signed,
By one of the people who would be affected by this.
Gunboats - Lunaphase - 05-30-2009
i fly a gunboat as well, for my merc. i sign this, being jack of all is not a blessing, its just unfair to the other classes.
so, /Signed by Luna
Gunboats - mjolnir - 05-30-2009
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
and one more.... :lol:
all the time since new release:
"Gunboats suck".... some people have even decided to leave disco basically because GBs suck so much now (and no it's not eppy)...
now:
"GBs are uber"
Personally I think they are just fine vs Cruisers, sure the GB can fire from some 1400 ms and be out of cruiser range, but from that range he won't really hit the cruiser either. 1 GB can't really kill 1 Cruiser given normal circumstances. 2 GBs vs 1 Cruiser can be close, but generally I'd say cruiser has a bit better chance. Much better than vs 2 bombers.
vs BS I'm not entirely sure, but I did notice how little BS use missiles against them. 2 GBs can kill a lone BS and I have done it myself many times, but then again those BS either: a) had useless loadout vs GBs, b) didn't know how to use it
Gunboats - Dab - 05-30-2009
' Wrote:"Gunboats suck".... some people have even decided to leave disco basically because GBs suck so much now (and no it's not eppy)...And those people would be people who don't know how to use them correctly. If you'd notice, I've never complained about them being gimped, so don't try to use that argument on me. Please stay on-topic. It's a balance thread afterall, not a flood one.
' Wrote:Personally I think they are just fine vs Cruisers, sure the GB can fire from some 1400 ms and be out of cruiser range, but from that range he won't really hit the cruiser either. 1 GB can't really kill 1 Cruiser given normal circumstances. 2 GBs vs 1 Cruiser can be close, but generally I'd say cruiser has a bit better chance. Much better than vs 2 bombers.If you can't hit a cruiser from 1500m with a battlerazor, it definitely isn't the fault of the GB.. Cruisers are extremely easy to hit with GBs.
' Wrote:vs BS I'm not entirely sure, but I did notice how little BS use missiles against them. 2 GBs can kill a lone BS and I have done it myself many times, but then again those BS either: a) had useless loadout vs GBs, b) didn't know how to use itPeople have tried using missiles against them. GBs can easily dodge those missiles. I've been a BS and I've been in a GB. When I was in the BS, I tried to use missiles. Didn't work. When I was the GB, the BS tried to use those missiles and I dodged them pretty easily. Not to mention you can simply shoot the missile before it hits you and not have to worry about it at all. Meanwhile the BS is out 60% of its energy. So even if it DID hit, you can't fire it often enough to hit the GB's hull before the shield recharges.
I've also fought dual GB attacks with two types of BSs. Multirole and anti-cap. Full Primary loadouts are completely useless against GBs. BSs with Mortar, Pulses, BRs, and secondaries do somewhat better, but if the GB can fly worth anything, he can easily dodge and hit the BS. Even if the BS DOES get the GB's shield down, the GB can thrust to 2K and wait for the recharge, no damage taken. And a BS can only shoot one at a time, so one GB dodges while the other does the damage and there is nothing the BS can do.
Don't waltz in and assume no one knows anything Mjolnir. There has been testing on this, and there has been real examples of real fights on the server with these situations by a large amount of people. You said I had no idea what I was talking about when I first brought up the issues with missile balance, and I turned out to know what I was talking about then.
You yourself just said, you've killed BSs with 2 GBs before.. That is not supposed to happen. Especially against experienced BS pilots. If you've got 2 GBs and a BS, all three pilots are highly experienced and skilled, the GBs will always win.