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+--- Thread: Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs (/showthread.php?tid=22635)
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - Dab - 07-01-2009
First some background on the situation;
Ever since 4.84 was released, we have had a flood of Zoner ID'd 5k transports flying just about everywhere. It has only gotten worse since 4.85 with the new Zoner -Guard- IDs. Zoner Guard ID'd Whales, ZBTs, Adv. Trains, Heavy Tankers, etc. If it has 5,000 cargo, there are Zoner Guard ID'd players using it. Most of the people I've talked to, Zoners and non-Zoners, have all said that the amount of Zoner Guard transports they see daily is getting ridiculous. I agree with this. We also have the problem with the Zoner BorderWorld Transport abuse.
The root of this is the fact that the Zoner Guard ID allows you to trade anywhere and with anyone, on any base. Along with that, you can use ships with 5,000 cargo. The normal Zoner ID allows the same, except only up to 3,800 cargo. No other ID has the trading freedom of the Zoner Guard ID. It's the perfect 'powertrader' ID. This much is obvious.
The problems this makes are;
1.) Zoners are found in house space more regularly than that house's own trading/mining corporations are.
2.) People are running house corporation trade routes in Zoner Guard ID'd ZBTs and Generic 5ks.
3.) Tied with #2; This reduces the amount of people who fly as corporation tagged/ID'd transports because the Zoner Guard ID allows you to do the same routes, as well as all other routes. You can switch on and off of it at any time.
4.) Zoner Guard transports are being used to smuggle everything from Nomads and Artifacts to Cardamine, straight through house space. Actions real Zoners would never take.
5.) Many of these powertrading Zoner Guard transports are flown by people who either can't RP, or simply refuse to try to RP when trading. Fearing it will lower their all-important 'credits-per-hour' rate. This leads to them taking the shortest routes available to maximize profit.. That being Alaska, Guard systems, Nomad systems, etc. Completely OORP for Zoners and traders in general.
6.) Tied with #5; Because so many of these Guard traders aren't RPing at all, and do whatever it takes to make more money faster, they are giving the 'real' Zoner players a bad name. Those of us who do everything we can to show what Zoners are supposed to be like, and maintain our neutrality. The actions these powertraders take are harming our efforts, ruining the faction, and causing widespread dislike of Zoners, even though many don't participate in powertrading.
Several people have been making little joke stabs about the situation on forums, and I've heard plenty of it in Skype.. This situation is getting out of hand, and we have to do something about it. It is not only effecting the Zoners, but all trading corporations in the mod. And these are negative effects.
So in an effort to stem the ZBT and Zoner Guard ID spam, I've taken a look at our ID. All of these problems are a result of our freedom to go anywhere, do anything, and trade with anyone, so that is where I focused my attention. All other possible solutions we looked at had too many drawbacks, such as reducing the ID's maximum cargo usage, which would seriously harm a faction that mainly does trade and prevent us, the Zoners, from using the Zoner BT, which is restricted to Zoners only. Many of us trade legitimately like real Zoners, in the Border Worlds. Another solution looked at was to get rid of the Zoner BorderWorld Transport, but that wouldn't solve the problem, because then Zoner Guard transports would simply switch to other 5k transports.
That left us with the ZoI that allows us to trade anything, anywhere, with anyone. Since several 'real' Zoner trade routes go through the edges of the houses when traveling between Border Worlds, we couldn't remove Zoners ability to fly through the houses. However, we can remove their ability to dock in the houses. This will stop them from doing house corporation trade routes, which will force them to do routes to/from Border Worlds, with a few exceptions. This will in turn stop the Zoner Guard ID spam, as it is being used to run those corporation runs, and to smuggle contraband directly on to lawful bases, such as Cardamine to Manhattan.
However, there are several factions in which the Zoners have a legitimate reason to dock the stations of, even within the houses. These include;
Independent Miners Guild;
The IMG has several bases in Bretonia. The IMG is a ship-design and major trade partner with the Zoners. The IMG are one of the few exceptions to the Zoner Guard ID's restriction on docking bases in the houses. The three bases this will open are; Cardiff Mining Facility in Cambridge, Battleship Hood in Dublin, and South Shields Refinery in Newcastle.
Gas Miners Guild;
While the 'alliance' with GMG exists, it is controversial among the players, and many Zoners and GMG do not support it. As such, the alliance is not a reason for our docking permission. However, GMG being the main supplier of H-fuel, Zoners have to be able to pick up supplies of H-fuel from the GMG, as the GMG and Kishiro cannot transport H-fuel to all the places in the Border Worlds in which the Zoners need it. Examples are Freeport 11 in Delta, due to Nomads. Freeport 10 in Tau-37 due to the Outcasts, Freeport 9, 5, Gran Canaria, and Lanzarote are also dangerous territory for them. It'd be better on both sides to have Zoners pick it up directly, or meet GMG at a waystation to get it from them. The GMG player faction has already authorized at least one Zoner faction to pick up H-fuel straight from their new mining operation in Okinawa, and GMG and the Zoners have always been strong trade partners.
Another reason for this is that all GMG stations are actually outside the houses. Aomori Station is within Honshu, but has it's own sovereignty. Okinawa follows the Kusari naming convention (just as Chugoku, Tohoku, Nagano, etc) but is actually sovereignty of GMG. This is added for clarification reasons, so that people do not mistake the Zoners docking Aomori or stations in Okinawa as them violating their ID. Likewise, the Kishiro, Interspace, and DSE stations in Okinawa are also permitted for Zoners to dock at. The other GMG stations are in the Sigmas.
The Council;
Because of Gallia's seclusion to the rest of Sirius, The Council has few factions available to transport it goods. The house corporations aren't going to risk going into Gallia, especially when they've already got their own wars and trade to deal with. The Zoners are one of the few neutral factions available to take goods into and out of Gallia. The GRN has already declared that the Zoners, who are Sirians, are not welcome. While the Zoners will not violate their neutrality by overtly aiding The Council, who are the Zoner's only chance to open the trade markets of Gallia, they can aid them financially by buying goods from, and selling goods to, The Council.
Bethlehem Station and Planet Erie;
Considering Bethlehem Station is a Zoner station, I think that one is self-explanatory. Planet Erie was formerly a Zoner-colonized planet that Liberty has taken from them. There is still a large population of Zoners living there, and a large amount of Zoner trade going to and from the planet.
Refugees;
Due to the Zoner's neutral stance towards all houses, they can transport Refugees from warzones without having to risk being targeted by either side, while transporting civilians out of harm's way. Which is really a win for both sides, as the defender doesn't have to worry about them getting hurt in the course of the war, and the attackers don't have to worry about hurting innocent civilian populations. Zoners make the ideal transporters for Refugees, as they can take them to neutral stations where the war will no longer effect them; For a price.
There are more factions and commodities that Zoners would occasionally transport to/from the houses, but for those we go to my idea concerning the normal non-Guard Zoner ID. Currently it allows you to trade anything, anywhere, with anyone.. But you can't have a ship with bigger than 3,800 cargo. I for one have not noticed any non-Guard Zoner ID spam. My idea is to allow the normal Zoner ID to keep its ability to trade with the houses. They would be the smaller transports that buy the goods that Zoners can't get from sources other than the houses. The necessities. Due to the smaller hold size, they are less likely to be abused. While they can do any trade route, the 5k transports will make more money, even if only running 'bonafide' Zoner routes. So it won't seem interesting to the powertraders abusing the IDs.
The exceptions above are for the Guard ID because they are places/commodities that Zoners would spend time trading to/from/with in-RP. I would add the Junkers as an exception, but then people would continue to trade contraband nonstop into the houses from Malta/Crete/Others as the Junker stations by them for almost as much as the lawful stations.
All of this is meant to reduce the number of Zoner Guard IDs (specifically, by those abusing them) on 5k transports in the houses. By doing so, the other problems will basically fix themselves. Furthermore, this will stop any and all Zoner capships flying through the houses, where they should never be. Those abusing the Zoner Guard IDs will have to change if they wish to continue using corporate routes. They are most likely to change to corporations so they can continue to use their 5k transports.. I won't say this will fix the RP problem, but I would bet many of those who do switch will learn to RP when they find out there is plenty of opportunities out there for factionalized traders to do so. And, unfortunately, many Zoner Guard ID abusers already know how to RP, but don't because it'd reduce their credit:hour ratios and because their routes don't allow for RP, because they are OORP themselves.
The text added (if this version were to be used) to the Zoner Guard ID would be;
Zoner Guard ID Wrote:Cannot dock any stations/planets/bases in lawful House space except;
Independent Miners Guild (IMG) Bases
Gas Miners Guild (GMG) Bases
Council Bases
Zoner Bases
Planet Erie
Or if transporting Refugees
Constructive feedback welcome. I plan to get through two revisions before taking this to the dev forums and Igiss for possible implementation.
EDIT: Well that was fast.. Please note the 'Post what you think needs changed' statement next to 'With further revision.'
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - farmerman - 07-01-2009
That makes sense. Let the regular Zoners be the go-between types while the Guard are the ones doing the dangerous, inter-Zoner business.
I'm not sold on the Refugees part, though. They could let regular Zoners transport them, or just be the ones to take them in while not doing any of the transporting.
Otherwise, makes sense to me! A lot nicer than some suggestions I thought I'd see for this sort of thing.
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - globalplayer-svk - 07-01-2009
well. this really make sense, but,
i am not here to defending the power traders, (i have zoner whale too, but i dont think i am power trading in it...)
but what other choice have people who will not be stick to one trade route, or one house,people who like large routes and they will be free?(not members of some house factions)
but they like big ships?...
before it was simple. now is only zoner guard id, the only one that allow you to trade,and stay free...
thats why so many people now use it...
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - Dab - 07-01-2009
Those who like to be able to trade anywhere can still use the Trader ID, Smuggler ID, OS&C ID, and Junker ID. Junker ID even allows ships up to 4,300 cargo space. Those who want to be able to trade in any of the houses can still use the Interspace ID which allows up to 4,700 cargo space. But simply put, the Zoner Guard ID offers too much freedom. I enjoy the freedom to do what I want, when I want to, but some things need to be regulated.
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - Cellulanus - 07-01-2009
I like this idea.
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - globalplayer-svk - 07-01-2009
interspace id, strict you to lawfull bases, so for example no supporting corsairs with food for me.:(
and smuggler id was fine, but when you have pirate train, you can not dock on lawfull base. so again forcing to smaller ship.
as i say, i dont think this whole thing is bad idea, but again
something as favoriting house pilots, because after this, noone except members of house factions can not use 5k cargo ships... and that is not
good in my eyes, when thing as trading is maked on favoritism someone...
(and i type for myself, i really like extra long routes, (from a-to b on my route it is +/- 20 minutes, )
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - SigCorps - 07-01-2009
I agree even though it will limit my own RP for OSI. It only makes sense to do this.
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - Lunaphase - 07-01-2009
BHG bases should be added to this list. The bhg docks on freeports all the time, why should it be one way?
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - AJBeast - 07-01-2009
While I am all up for it , there is a nibbling lil voice in the back of my head thats saying "No! That way all the powetraders will migrate to the Junkers , getting caught all the time , undermining the very essence of beeing a Junker" ( Junkers are very VERY hard to be caught smuggling.)
Im probably just beeing paranoid though. So yea ! Do it!
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - Capt. Henry Morgan - 07-01-2009
I think that looks good and well thought out. Nobody should get an unlimited ZoI, and that doesn't really reduce any options for anyone wanting to properly RP a Zoner.
It gets my approval.