Quote:So...
Does anyone have any idea what Disco's problems are?
Don't blame people or factions.
What things are causing these issues to resurface?
Because the problem hasn't gone away. It's just cycled to another place, another person's focus.
I would mention attitudes but that's been harped on already lots of times.
What other things could be causing us to rip into each other?
Are we approaching Disco like we approach Singleplayer?
Are we focused on ourselves too much?

What are some potential solutions?
How can we all get to enjoying the game together, no matter what you do, or what happens to you?

How can we get to that place where, it doesnt matter if you get pirated, or if you are the pirate,, or if your ship gets blown up, or if you are the one blowing that ship up, both players can go away from that encounter with an enjoyment in playing Disco?

' Wrote:Hyung...I think I know the answers but they aren't pretty. Our admin team is not faceless. They are real people who enjoy playing the game and getting involved as much as the next person. The problem comes in that they will make mistakes and people will feel slighted. Next, people (in general) are stupid, inconsiderate and selfish. Only a faceless, ruthless admin team could hope to curb that behavior. Finally, disco has gotten too popular. The personalized admin team worked great when there were fewer people around. Relationships formed and disputes, while sometimes heated, were generally dealt with in a cordial manner. Nowadays, you have personally invested admins trying to tame a tsunami of internet trash and there is no way they can get to know and understand most players.

The way disco is set up is not conducive to the amount of traffic we see nowadays. All solutions to this problem (that I am aware of) are unpopular in some way. The only way I see the apparent problems being dealt with is by giving our admins anonymity and to exchange the banhammer for a tactical nuke (or remove all capital ships, yikes). Neither of which are at all popular.

' Wrote:Does anyone have any idea what Disco's problems are?

1. What things are causing these issues to resurface?

2. What other things could be causing us to rip into each other?

3. Are we approaching Disco like we approach Singleplayer?

4. Are we focused on ourselves too much?

5. What are some potential solutions?

6. How can we all get to enjoying the game together, no matter what you do, or what happens to you?


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1. Large player base with influx of new players that do not read the rules and think it's awesome to blow up a transport in a Battleship or send 4 Gunboats after a fighter.

2. Summer, people go weird in hot weather :laugh:Besides it's only a minority that actually want to flame on the forum at least. In-game again I put that down to new players, not that I am saying all are bad. Let's face it though, most people that are forum active and have been here awhile show a lot of restraint.

3. I'm not sure I can give a response to that.

4. Probably, I guess that's human nature.

5. Tricky, as has been discussed one solution is too give official factions some lee-way in controlling indies. Another is maintain the status quo. Ganking has been happening for along long time, we have all been the victim of it. Provided it's not a missile boat that needs no skill to fire which irks me, I can usually just run away. I can't see a workable solution that will end uninvited players joining in fights that they were asked not too.

6. I think most of us do, it's why we play here. Yes you can have some bad experiences but you can have some great ones too with polite respectful people.

Spear Wrote:I hope people can realise that's there's a lot right here and not become so focussed on what's wrong.

' Wrote:So I say attitudes.
You say faceless, ruthless, admins would help.
The very fundamental way Disco is set up needs changing.
Do I understand you right?

' Wrote:Yes, that is essentially what I am saying. The idea is not without its problems. Increased restrictions, punishments and cold-hearted anonymous judges will eventually cause the population to dwindle. Many people do not want that, others would applaud it. Personally, I am one torn between the two. I like knowing my admins, seeing their personalities and am comforted by the fact that they enjoy this game too. I don't want to give that up. However, I realize that when you have the numbers that we have now (and these issues have been brewing ever since we maxed out the server limit) you have to change the way you govern the masses. In my mind, the only way to handle this is to take adminship out of the spotlight and to increase punishments. Guhh...makes me sad.

Nighthawk Wrote:And we already know that is not going to happen. Any change we make will benefit one group of people while harming another, there isn't a middle ground unfortunately.

Monk Wrote:In my mind, the only way to handle this is to take adminship out of the spotlight and to increase punishments.

' Wrote::laugh:

The admin's can't win, it's too strict, it's too leniant, sanction this guy, don't sanction him though he meant well. Thank God I am not an Admin.

I think we are strict enough at present, we don't need more rules. What we need is more people showing a little more respect to each other. In truth I think a large part of the problem is players who are not forum active, are new here and think everything is about the "PEW PEW"

No matter what we debate here, there will always be players like this. Again please don't think I am tarnishing all new players or players that are not active on the forums, I don't want to generalise people.

• The belief that Factions are trying to destroy Independents and that Independents are trying to undermine Factions. If this could be resolved, I think a lot of animosity would go away. Not even sure the root cause of this.
  
  
• The belief that certain members of the dev team are amazingly biased and/or out to get you. Not sure a fix on this, but having more clarity on matters would help. Justifying through the use of pure numbers isn't always helpful, nor is the fact that there doesn't seem to be much saying how things are done. I think if such was the case that a lot of the conspiracy cries would go away.
  
  
• The belief that admins are out to get most everyone. Ok, this probably wasn't helped by the recent chaosthread related chaos. Some other examples are people who are complaining about various rule infractions, but unwilling to do anything about them because they think everything they say on the matter is ignored. Another is that admins unfairly ban certain people.
  
  Solutions? Good question, again. For the latter specifically, I'll go back to my previous idea from quite so long ago - all sanctions and rule related posts should be done by a common account. Then it steps away from any feelings of it being personal (away from, mind you, not completely separated from).
  
  The Admin team also seems to be getting overworked again. Several new Admins had been added, but at the same time there's been an outflux (why isn't that a word?). Perhaps that matter should be looked into? Many hands and lighter work and such.
  
  
• The rules nitpickery. People have a tendency to microanalyze all the rules. Why? Dunno, I barely passed Sociology, but I figure I may've gotten insight if I paid attention. A complete revision may be in order, possibly with examples of right and wrong. There are still a couple rules that seems obsolete, for one thing. Streamline the rules and it may decrease the amount of analyzing the mammoth situation, with rules added on top of older rules, etc.
  
  
• People being angry with unnecessary force. Again, another hard to pinpoint problem. Lots of people get it right, but lots also seem to get it wrong. Joe's last thread on the matter shows a lot of the opinions. I think the fact that there IS a division enforces the problem. Finding a middleground is a must.
  
  
• The feeling of powertrading and people acting oorp. The fact there is plenty of accusations here is just as much of a problem as any actual issues (which are hard to pinpoint for vagueness). Sure, there are plenty of various obvious incidents, but I'm talking about the borderline stuff - is it oorp to attack a fighter in your freighter? There are opinions on both sides. Is it oorp for a Zoner to visit Station X? Opinions are, again, divided.
  
  And where is the line between trading and powertrading? Certainly people can come up with examples that are clearly one or the other, but a huge portion falls in the middle. We need to find a way to resolve these in a way that doesn't further divide people.
  
  For the Zoner specifics, Dab's recent thread has a lot of interesting discussions on the matter. It seems it may be being worked on by the community. It's a first step at least.
  
  
• A difference in the view of the overall goals in Disco. Many people seem to want a static situations where others want something dynamic. I don't think I've ever seen a post about the overall philosophy of Disco in this regard. Which way does it lean more? Certainly that can help move things forward.
  

' Wrote:Pass It On was the movie I think.