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+--- Thread: Poll: Gallic Junkers (/showthread.php?tid=23993)
Poll: Gallic Junkers - Tenacity - 07-28-2009
So while thinking about my gallic junker character today, an interesting thought struck me... how is it that, despite being almost completely seperated for hundreds of years, both Gallic and Sirius junkers use exactly the same ships and technology?
Going by rumors on gallic junker bases - only a few of the sirian junker leaders ever even knew about gallia, it was all very hush-hush. Most junkers in Sirius were none the wiser until the pathways into Gallia opened up and the truth was revealed to everyone, junker and non junker alike.
Now, we do know that the original junkers are from gallia, and that some of them came into Sirius and began the Sirian junker groups we have today.
Here are a few things I'm going to assume:
1. Junkers from gallia came into all four houses - but were promptly thrown out of kusari.
2. Junkers brought their ships and technology with them from gallia, aka the CSV and Barragers. The ship design was obviously adopted by the original Hogosha after they dealt with the junkers who were flying them.
3. From the original point of time in which junkers came to Sirius, their technology has slowly evolved based on their needs.
So basically, the CSV we have today, and the other junker ships, were developed over time by SIRIAN junkers, and while the Gallic junkers may have had an original ship design similar to the CSV, it is unlikely that their technological evolution would have taken the same trajectory, based on differing goals.
One of the things that has always bothered me about vanilla junkers, and the junkers we have today on disco, is that their ships do not fit with their purpose. Junker ships, by infocard and basic design, are great for salvage purposes... but the textures and general condition of the ship just dont fit. In essence, junker ships are too 'clean' and 'shiny' right now.
So, the thought came to mind that, because of these hundreds of years of separation, on top of a different environment to live in, Gallic junkers should have unique ships and weapons available to them. Their technology would have developed along different lines than Sirius junker technology did.
So, here are my thoughts:
1. Ships
The new gallic junker ship models would have the same basic shape as the CSV/Collector, with minor differentiations to show a different line of development. However, I would like to see a sort of 'steampunk' design put into them... lots of piping, rusty textures, valves, gauges, etc. The idea is that junkers in gallia, while they are more 'legal' and on better terms with the government, are not as heavy into smuggling as they are into salvaging and merchanting.
My view of the gallic junkers, outside of their role in stealing technology from sirius (and keep in mind this is only my opinion), is that you'd have junkers on every streetcorner in gallia hawking merchandise salvaged from whatever source - but at the same time, these individuals are keeping open ears and eyes, watching the populace of gallia, and acting as informants for the royalists. When they see criminals or maquis, they inform the local authorities, and get paid off for it. Basically acting as spies with the cover of selling salvaged and refurbished goods.
As far as balancing goes, we have already seen that gallic ships (lawful and unlawful alike) are balanced on a completely different scale than sirius ships. There's only one VHF in gallia, for example. Most gallic ships seem fairly small in scale, but are still fairly tough, with their Heavy fighters able to stand up to VHF's fairly easily. Going on this, instead of having a VHF like the collector, the gallic junker version would be a heavy fighter, with more manuverability but a bit less firepower.
2. Weapons
Junkers have more to fear in gallia than anywhere else in sirius, with perhaps the sole exception of Kusari. Going along the general interfaction behavior in gallia, Junkers have to worry about constant attacks from the Maquis, Brigands, and Unione Corse - they work with the council and those factions occasionally, but more often than not are on the wrong end of the gun barrel. Because of this, they need to be able to fight back and defend their ships.
Barragers, any way you slice them, suck. Every junker knows this, and most Junker fighters/bombers I've seen will more readily use lame civilian weaponry than they will their own faction guns. Further, Barragers were a Sirius junker development, not a gallic junker development - it is safe to say that they are at least based on an original gallic design, but evolution in gallic junker technology would have likely lead to a different result.
I dont have stat suggestions yet, but simply put... Gallic Junkers should have weapons on par with the Culverins and such used by the other Gallic Factions.
3. ID
Going along with the above two points, it would be necessary to seperate junker and gallic junker ships/equipment. Gallic junker ships and equipment need to stay in gallia, or at the most not be allowed to stray more than a system or two outside of gallia.
To that end, a "Galllic Junker" (Ferraileur?) ID would be added. The Gallic Junker weapons and ships mentioned above would state in their infocards that they can only be used by someone with a gallic junker ID. The gallic junker ID would not allow the player to leave gallic space (perhaps only allowing entrance to omicron 80 / orkney), but other than that restriction be basically the same as the current junker ID, re-worded for the position of a junker in gallia.
So, I'll send some PM's to the well known ship designers to see what we can come up with as far as a unique ship appearance, but I want to know what the rest of the disco community thinks about this seperation between Sirius and Gallic junkers first.
Poll: Gallic Junkers - Sprolf - 07-28-2009
This actually isn't too bad of an idea.
I think you're on a good track here, Tenacity.
Poll: Gallic Junkers - Canadianguy - 07-28-2009
I voted ID and Weapons but I just thinked I should have voted all of the above. The thing is that the Junkers in Gallia have a very different role from those in the rest of sirius. A lot of Junkers in the rest of sirius didn't even knew that Gallia existed before the council blew off the Orkney minefield.
And yes, Ferailleur is a pretty good translation of Junker.
Poll: Gallic Junkers - worldstrider - 07-28-2009
I think ID and weapons is appropriate. That has been suggested.
Poll: Gallic Junkers - Dusty Lens - 07-28-2009
I feel that the changes requested are somewhat redundant.
New guns would be a blessing no matter the location, as barragers are insanely horrible. Like, truly horribly poor. I'll probably go on some kind of dev team strike if they're not corrected.
As to the ships... Why would they go out of their way to build up a fleet of vessels unique to the region when they can simply maintain the perfectly viable fleets of vessels which integrate perfectly with Sirius' interpretation of them? Junker ships are extremely well adapted to the task of salvaging regardless of where they may be.
As to the ID... It would require Junkers to swap back and forth between IDs and ships whenever they wish to come and go from Gallia which seems like it would knock one of the pins out from underneath one of the core delights of being a Junker at the moment.
If you would like a few new ships might I suggest that you ask your modelers to touch up the Gitmo and the Bulldog? Both could use new models and, with them, hopefully they'll be risen from their current quasi useless stances to become aproximations of what you're looking for style wise but still employable Sirius wide.
My two cents.
Poll: Gallic Junkers - Tenacity - 07-28-2009
Not sure what the 'gitmo' is, but the bulldog is the old deathscythe right? from what I hear, it's not so bad as far as ship stats anymore... and if we could turn that into a gallic junker ship with a more junkerish design, it would fit perfectly as a heavy fighter.
We could also change the Waran over to a gallic junker bomber with a new model, I dont think anyone uses that pacman monster right now.
EDIT:
And dusty, they wouldnt have to change ID every time they come and go from gallia. The gallic junkers would need to stay in gallia, but sirius junkers could come and go - they're still the same faction, just using different equipment. The purpose of the ID is to prevent the gallic-specific ships and equipment from being used outside of gallia.
Poll: Gallic Junkers - worldstrider - 07-28-2009
The current state of affairs on limitations in Gallia makes it clear that Junkers pretty much aren't allowed by the powers that be to pilot capital ships. Junkers outside Gallia have more access to weaponry.
I agree with Dusty on the "Why different ships?" though having a couple of ones "more commmon in Gallia" isn't so bad sounding nor would be having a couple of guns with a tiny bit more oomph.
Also, as Junkers in Gallia are obvioulsy at the bottom of every other faction's social ladder, it seems they might be much more favorable to one another in many cases. Outer Sirius Junkers would be the "rich cousins". This could make for jealous enmity or open expectant arms dependning on how individual Junkers wanted to play it.
I like a seperate Gallic ID but not in the sense that it adds a great distance between Sirius and Gallic Junkers. It might be useful in making it easier/harder with certain factions to gain rep but that would take a lot of thought and great tweaking.
Poll: Gallic Junkers - Tenacity - 07-28-2009
I wouldnt place gallic junkers at the bottom of the 'social ladder'. They've provided an invaluable service to the gallic government for hundreds of years - almost all of the technology currently in use in gallia is thanks to the junkers stealing it from sirius.
The way I see it, the gallic junkers are fairly well hated by gallic unlawfuls, and treated like 'pets to the crown', whereas they're on very good terms with the gallic government, police, and navy as informants. They're probably also viewed with a fair deal of respect by gallic corporations, as junkers are the only faction within gallia to serve as cleanup and disposal crews. Basically, they're the ALG of the gallic house, and probably crack mechanics and repair teams on top of that.
It's not like i'm asking for an entire fleet of gallic-junker ships either, just a new version of the CSV/Collector, Junker Bomber, and Junker Freighter that fit the image of gallia better than the sirius counterparts.
Poll: Gallic Junkers - tansytansey - 07-28-2009
I vote they get their own ID. New weapons aren't needed, just buff Barragers. Gallic Junkers can use Gallic Civilian weapons if they're really desperate to seperate themselves from the rest of the Junkers.
Maybe Barragers should have more of a Gallic feel in the projectile.
Same goes with ships. Grab a Gallic Civilian ship and away we go.
Poll: Gallic Junkers - farmerman - 07-28-2009
I think the ships are good as-is. I've always seem them as representing the spare-parts, do-it-yourself type ships.
Weapons, hmmm, I could see that. Maybe something slow in refire rate to complement the occasional Barrager (which should be adjusted otherwise) as they could occasionally be brought in.
An ID could also work, but it'd need to be carefully thought out to make it have a reason to stand out from the standard ID. Alternately! Replace Junker Guard with Gallic Junker. You'd have to work up the ranks to get to know the Gallic part in the old days. PR would need to be tweaked a bit though.