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+--- Thread: ID Thoughts - Speak now (/showthread.php?tid=27108)
ID Thoughts - Speak now - Dusty Lens - 09-24-2009
Now for no reason at all, no reason at all (certainly not a pending update to patch some holes in the ID system which have become apparent over the last few months) I want to hear your new thoughts and feedback on the ID system.
I strongly urge you to get your thoughts off your chest.
Now, not to spoil anything but don't bother mentioning.
A) Military forces scanning for contraband.
B) Vigilantes only flying 5 ships
C) Corsairs and OSC
D) Military or Police IDs not allowing you to hop into house transports.
E) Miners and indie traders now having access to snubships.
Which I think are some of the issues that might be at the top of the list.
So, rather, suggest or thought away.
ID Thoughts - Speak now - Boss - 09-24-2009
Mostly the house transport things, though it does seem somewhat counterproductive to not be allowed to scan for contraband as a Navy Gunboat and instead need to call in the LPI, a process that leaves the smuggler alone with the docking point for at least five minutes.
ID Thoughts - Speak now - eyvind - 09-24-2009
In my opinion -- as well as in those of several of my peers -- Corporate IDs should not forbid accepting bounty payments.
ID Thoughts - Speak now - Zelot - 09-24-2009
I am of the belief that restrictions on who people can attack restrict rp on the server. Id's like the Outcast (can't attack Nom Nom's, or the GC (Can't attack Interspace), Corsairs (Cant attack OSC (Oh no I broke Dusty's rule)) and many others, lead to ID abuses, as well as restricting people's abilities to properly interact with these people. Imagine if you will, a Interspace pilot, chauvinist, insulting, disrespectful to women, flying threw Kusari, stopped by the GC. He can be as rude, insulting and sexist as possible, all the while he can do that because he knows that it's against the rules for the GC to touch his ship. I have had Samura tagged and ID'ed ships, tell me how the Farmers Alliance is awful and the Blood Dragons are the future of Kusari, and there was absolutely nothing I could do about it. Same with the Xeno's and Universal.
Sorry to break your rule Dusty, but I think this one needs to be addressed.
ID Thoughts - Speak now - atom - 09-24-2009
My 2 cents worth Make ID's earnable not buyable
ID Thoughts - Speak now - Cyberanson - 09-24-2009
' Wrote:A) Military forces scanning for contraband.RP wise this makes not as much sense as practical-wise. Since police forces have not such great powers as militaries at all, militaries should be abled to scan for contraband. However this should only apply, if no police forces are around. Common sense.
' Wrote:B) Vigilantes only flying 5 shipsShould be up to the RP situation. What speaks against more?
' Wrote:C) Corsairs and OSCI don't know both of them.
' Wrote:D) Military or Police IDs not allowing you to hop into house transports.The house transports should be restricted to the respective corporations. As well as the Mover!
' Wrote:E) Miners and indie traders not having access to snubships.To what?
ID Thoughts - Speak now - Dusty Lens - 09-24-2009
' Wrote:In my opinion -- as well as in those of several of my peers -- Corporate IDs should not forbid accepting bounty payments.
That's an interesting discussion. One that I've been back and forth on. What I have in place right now is a system which allows corporations to accept in-house payments.
In other words, Universal pilots can collect on Universal bounties.
But, after putting it in, it felt a tad cumbersome and has the duel effect of making those persons whom collect on bounties for a living somewhat redundant. So I'm still back and forth on that one.
I think it was Blodo who argued that those corps would hire thugs to take care of their business... But if they would why would they be house corporate blokes and not freelancers/mercs/bounty hunters.
Mining ID thing was a typo, the mining and indie trader ID now allows access to snubships. Civilian fighters and the like for escort duty.
Zelot, definitely done. A lot of those restrictions were extremely silly and chiefly resulted in a detraction from reality.
Everything's circumstantial and relationships can be forged between players. Otherwise you end up with fleets of OSC ships floating around Corsairs going OLOLOLOLOLOL.
ID Thoughts - Speak now - Benjamin - 09-24-2009
I am one of Eyvind's peers.
I want more PvP freedom in general for corporation IDs. The fact they have less freedom to shoot unlawfuls than freelancers is just weird and leads to terrible nonsense like corporations having to use freelancer IDs for their escorts. Makes no sense and goes against what the little vanilla NPCs do.
I would suggest the following two changes for corporation IDs:
Can fulfill lawful bounty contracts.
Can engage pirates/unlawfuls/whatever throughout their Zone of Influence.
They already have a weird piecemeal version of the second clause - normally the ability to do it in the corporation's house of origin, and then also in systems where they have bases, or similar. This is weird and implies behaviour that makes no sense (like Cryer trading all through Liberty, but then suddenly teleporting to Atka and Cambridge rather than flying there). The right to shoot up unlawfuls in their origin-houses implies an acceptance that it makes sense for them to do such things, but then not being able to do it in other houses makes it seem as though people don't realise that corporations actually have to travel to places to trade.
I really can't see any abuse coming out of this, since compared with freelancer/merc IDs (which corp escorts can -and some do- already use) it gets rid of the ability to attack lawfuls, gives you a bunch of enemies and massively restricts your ship/equipment usage. You can cry foul, but there is literally no way this change would result in pvpwhore corporation deathsquads. It would just give corporations the security they currently enjoy in their own house, in all the areas in which they trade, eliminating a weird distinction which makes no sense.
As for the accepting bounties suggestion: twofold.
One: It would give corp escorts something to do when there's nothing to escort (a situation which happens a lot). Fun for gameplay, would boost the playability of corporations (which is seemingly desired by the devs?)
Two: There's precedent for it in roleplay. If you surf Rheinland bar rumours, poor little Rheinland escorts talk about doing bounty jobs in their spare time to make ends meet.
Edit: to address zelot/dusty posts made whilst I was typing: To use Zelot's example, the Interspace guy can also not attack the GC if corp IDs don't change. Would this not also count as silly and a detraction from reality? Not to mention very lame and unfair for the corporate guy? He can be shot at by all unlawfuls, but he can literally be banned from the server for shooting them? This corp thing is just a part of that situation, just not looked at as much because of the lack of corp fighter pilots, which is partially caused by the said restrictions.
ID Thoughts - Speak now - eyvind - 09-24-2009
' Wrote:That's an interesting discussion. One that I've been back and forth on. What I have in place right now is a system which allows corporations to accept in-house payments.
In other words, Universal pilots can collect on Universal bounties.
But, after putting it in, it felt a tad cumbersome and has the duel effect of making those persons whom collect on bounties for a living somewhat redundant. So I'm still back and forth on that one.
I think it was Blodo who argued that those corps would hire thugs to take care of their business... But if they would why would they be house corporate blokes and not freelancers/mercs/bounty hunters.
In-universe, I think employees fulfilling bounty contracts would not get paid the reward. Instead, I think the corporation itself would be paid. I think that would follow quite logically from today's employment laws, and the nature of employment itself. The employee is hired and paid by the corporation to carry out whatever duties the corporation decides, while the employee is employed (working hours or through the entire period of employment, depending on context) the corporation owns the product or service the employee provides.
(Implementing this with game mechanics would be impractical and harmful to game-play, in my opinion, but I think it illustrates my point. How the money is handled by the player and any applicable faction should be up to them. As an aside, though, having the faction take all the reward is probably not such a good idea.)
People who offer bounties do so in order to get the people or ships in question destroyed or captured. They generally don't care how or who does it (though they sometimes have some reasonable restrictions).
On the other side of the table, corporations generally pay their employees in order to make a greater profit, directly or indirectly. Therefore, it makes little sense for corporations to prohibit their employees from accepting bounties on ships they destroy while working.
Employees of corporations are allowed to hunt (a controversial term, but have it mean whatever it should) pirates within certain boundaries. This, I feel, is a reasonable rule-based restriction; it is a compromise, but not too restrictive. Prohibiting (by server rules) the profiting by corporations of such activity is much too restrictive on role-play possibilities.
Corporations of Sirius are massive. They are veritably enormous and proverbially imposing. They sprawl horizontally and vertically with countless branches, divisions, and subsidiaries. Let's assume, for the sake of exemplifying, that one of these subsidiaries is some form of security company. This company would be as reliant on payment from their customers as any other company, and their customers would generally be people who want other people dead, captured, or neutralized for whatever reason. It makes perfect sense to me that a company like this would fulfill bounty contracts day in and day out. It also makes perfect sense to me that employees of a company such as this would use the ID of their parent corporation, since that would be the closest fit in determining their role (the supposed purpose of IDs).
I hope I have made my position clear.
EDIT post Benjamin's post:
Reciprocally, I am also one of Ben's peers in that I largely share the opinions he just posted.
ID Thoughts - Speak now - Dusty Lens - 09-24-2009
Just to make a small post: I have never heard of a trading faction which has escorts online but no transports. In my experience it's always the other way around. I'm somewhat wary about the notion of supplying those "bored" pilots with the duty of roaming Sirius looking for mans to kill.
*resumes lurking*