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+---- Thread: Radical changes. (/showthread.php?tid=27627)
Radical changes. - SevereTrinity - 10-05-2009
Right, gather round children, it's story time.
Once upon a time there was a problem. The date was 4.84, and gunboat were running rampant, firing SIX gunboat missiles at our bombers! So we changed the code of the universe, allowing them to only mount one. Sadly, all this power went to the man who was in charge of making these changes' head, thus creating many more changes! What was once a problem, which got fixed (Good on him!), then became a catastrophe as he turned around and said 'I could change more and make it even better!'
BUT IT WAS NOT TO BE SO.
Because sadly, things don't work as this man's mother raised him to believe. Constantly 'improving' something doesn't work. Because it becomes a trainwreck. so this man just kept giving and giving and giving until he was only taking away.
In other words, Martin (Mjolnir) and our lovely balance team, have fixed the couple of problems we had (Again, good on them), but now they are 'fixing' things that were not needing fixed.
If something isn't broken don't fix it.
And he refuses to go back on these because he's a lazy eejit.
[18:32:59] Ross Comrie says: Ok
[18:33:01] Ross Comrie says: A tip
[18:34:55] Ross Comrie says: How about some of the dev's here (Not naming names; you know who you are), get your heads out of their asses and start listening to people other than the people who always say 'Yes, that's a great idea' in this chat. It's quite immature. And yes, that's coming from me.
[18:34:57] Ross Comrie says: I know outlandish ideas are usually accepted here, so maybe this one could be as well!
[18:35:28] dusty_lens says: [10:24:48 AM] Caglar Akarca: Are we volunteering to spend our time here for the betterment of this mod in order to be yelled at by youngsters, just because they are brandished with an admin epaulet? You have to wrap your head about it, because you can't complain about something if you haven't done so in time, while you could. Its bloody simple.
<<<
I just spotted this. What the hell are you talking about? What the hell does his being an admin have to do with his arguments or your perception of them?
He can complain the second you put your work on the server right along side everyone else. Your work isn't sanctified simply because you worked on it.
[18:35:35] Martin Rytir says: how about you coming with some proposal Ross?
[18:35:46] Ross Comrie says: Ok
[18:36:28] Ross Comrie says: Put bomber balance back to the way it was in 4.84 EXCEPT for gunboat missile spam and the powerplant change (Where we nerfed the powerplant but lowered SN energy to compensate).
[18:36:45] Martin Rytir says: 4.84 ?
[18:37:20] Ross Comrie says: Yea, you know, the mod version which wasn't the most screwed up.
[18:37:33] Martin Rytir says: ok
[18:37:44] Sungi says: i was gonna reply to that, but **** it
[18:37:44] Martin Rytir mounts 2 minins and 5 tizonas on his catamaran ..
[18:38:16] Ross Comrie says: Ok.
[18:38:22] Ross Comrie says: and you can only stay in kusari.
[18:38:43] Ross Comrie says: With the BDs and the Red cats and KU DessieGBs ;D
[18:38:56] Martin Rytir says: I'll make "rp story" and fly it as a merc, with inferno and krakens;)
[18:39:28] Ross Comrie says: Ok.
[18:39:29] Martin Rytir says: or when I'm not in kusari I'll get my old cap 8 BHG GS with 2 missiles and insta-kill fighters as well as solo BS..
[18:39:35] Ross Comrie says: I'll await your sanction report,
[18:39:39] Ross Comrie says: Well.
[18:39:43] Ross Comrie says: If you paid attention
[18:39:55] Ross Comrie says: You'd realize they can't fire missiles anymore:)
[18:40:03] Martin Rytir says: 4.84..
[18:40:10] Ross Comrie says: But you can't because your head is so far up your ass.
[18:40:17] Ross Comrie says: Put bomber balance back to the way it was in 4.84 EXCEPT for gunboat missile spam and the powerplant change (Where we nerfed the powerplant but lowered SN energy to compensate).
[18:40:26] Ross Comrie says: 'To the way it was in 4.84 EXCEPT for gunboat missile spam and the powerplant'
[18:40:37] Ross Comrie says: Do you read, or just type?:)
[18:40:43] Martin Rytir says: Ignore
[18:40:55] Ross Comrie says: Exactly.
To put it simply. How would you feel about the mod being reverted, gameplay wise, back to 4.84 balance between bombers and gunboats, with the bombers power plant changed (PP lowered and SN energy lowered to compensate.) and the gunboats no longer being missile spammable? I'm talking about only changing the gunboat/bomber relation as, to put it in a plain manner, they actually did OK with the rest of the balance.
Also, I haven't actually voted before Martin comes in here to defend his pride, charging like an Internet White Knight defend an Internet Real Girl!
Oh, and before posting 'NO U', please entertain the thought first.
Edit: And Sprolf, before voting, please post. Yes, you Sprolf. And that goes for the rest of you as well please.
Radical changes. - aznremix416 - 10-05-2009
Im all for it
Radical changes. - Corsair - 10-05-2009
Eh, I dunno. I like the thought of them becoming anti-capital ships again, but I killed a Drake in my Falcata the other day. So...
Eh.
Radical changes. - mjolnir - 10-05-2009
Now let's see the changes since 4.84 then:
- GBs got less power
- all gb guns use more power (most dramatically Razors and Pulses)
- GBs fire less missiles
- GBs fly at 150 on thruster
- all bombers have very good shieldbuster
- GB missiles down shield in one hit or eat powerplant
- bombers can fire guns less, SNs at same rate
Note that after the "radical" nerfs made from 4.84 to 4.85 a few GB pilots called me all sorts of names and some even left disco because of that. I'm not posting names cause I'm not joining you in pointing fingers.
=======================================
To the issue that is obviously "pressing" you.
Different guns for bombers were suggested by someone else than me last December, they were talked about, but declined as too late for 4.85. Now since june they have been discussed on dev forums again and tested as well as recommended by numerous people, I again wasn't much active in that discussion.
While it's certainly charming that you give me all the credit I'm afraid it's undeserved.
The stats for the bomber guns are off course subject to change depending on how they work/don't work.
But as someone who in 95% of GB/bomber fights uses only SN, I don't see how GB vs Bomber balance has now drastically changed.
Radical changes. - SevereTrinity - 10-05-2009
Martin, small differences add up. You might not know that, but you should. So don't do what you always do and ignore these two lines.
Radical changes. - Andrew_Bonesovich - 10-05-2009
I didnt see any solo bomber vs gunboat yet, but in group fights, I didnt see any drastical changes (gunboat got massacred:P). Actually, the idea works very well so far, I had a hard time putting down Titan shields with those guns (I was told it was Mjolnir himself, so accussations of him not being ingame are wrong), which is what we wanted.
I agree that gunboats might be a bit weak, but bombers are fine in areas which are they supposed to be fine in now.
Now only thing we need is to work out how to make bombers easier to take out by escorts effectively before the cap is gone in flames. Then maybe gunboats need to be made more useful against fighting small craft (I think theyre supposed to rape bombers or not?).
I think we are going the right way with bombers, specializing them further while keeping their ability to fight caps.
Radical changes. - DarthCloakedGuy - 10-05-2009
' Wrote:Now only thing we need is to work out how to make bombers easier to take out by escorts effectively before the cap is gone in flames. Then maybe gunboats need to be made more useful against fighting small craft (I think theyre supposed to rape bombers or not?).I had an idea on exactly that not long ago. Boost capital ship and transport shields while lowering the regen rate. That way, Bombers will need to take more time to kill the thing, giving escorts plenty of time to take the bomber out, but cap vs. cap battles will still be mostly the same.
Radical changes. - ... kur nubėgo? - 10-07-2009
Yeah, thor hammer, let me guess. Recommended by a lot of people, but discoureged by even more?
I heard roumers about dev chat, some people who were invited were just left on their own free will. Somehow I can't understand how Ross holds there.
Anyhow about the idea of gb / bomber. Im all up for it. And gunboats kills bs's thats why bs's needs escorts ech, not logical? And who said ... really who said that gunboats must kill fighters, bombers? As I remember SP camaing, in 4 mission walker ordered fighters to intercept gunboats, becouse they are to fast for cap turrets.
And even more anoyed I get "we do not look at whines on the forums"... wut? what ? really so you came to work as a dev member who works for comunity listens what it has to say, or work for your own ideas (really this is ugly, the main problem ofthese days politicians and now it mirrors here too, if that so)
Even more ugly, justify unsuccess by "im working for free" its even worse. Dont understand me wrong, im greatful for teh mod, and for teh game. Hack I didnt paid anything for it at all. But if you are calling yourself a fish, mind to jump and swim in the water.
Well I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds, dev team makes and really good changes, but as it seems doesnt forget to act like jerks sometime. Perhaps its human's nature, but please, hide it a bit, after all you should be like example for others.
And after I saw this skype chat... Heh... Shame.
Try to listen people more. Instead of your own ideas. And as I remeber about the bombers, the minoraty supported slow gun idea.
~ Antanas