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+---- Thread: Mining Balance (/showthread.php?tid=27629)
Mining Balance - Denelo - 10-05-2009
Mining is messed up.
Right. So I have a BMM tagged, BMM ID'd Mining ship with nothing but Transport Mining Turrets sitting outside Graves Station (a BMM base) mining Gold from the BMM field in Dublin. In 4.85 it still took 10 transports to every mining ship to even break even with the same number of people trading. That's assuming the mining ship can fill up one transport every thirty seconds. It can't. Another way to do it was to take the cash directly to Graves. We'd have one Shire and three Mining ships going. The Shire'd pick up the Gold every five to ten minutes or so and sell it on Graves for 2 million. It still wasn't worth nearly as much as even one of those people trading.
Now, it's worse. First of all, in that same field, the density of little minable asteroids is noticeably lower, and the asteroids drop Gold Ore slightly less often. When they do drop, it, they only drop one unit. On top of that, Gold Ore sells for half what Gold did in the base version. Now it's gone from useless to so utterly useless that I could earn more money doing missions in my mining ship from Planet New London. Really, this is ridiculous. I'm guessing the drop amount is from a messed up FLHook; however, unless the drop count is very considerable - say, 2 units a second? - it still isn't worthwhile to mine. Two units a second would mean a 2500 manseconds to fill a 5k. As it stands, 5k gold ore sells for 1.25 million on Graves, which is supposed to be the processing plant. That's 500 credits per mansecond. The transport has to be made part of the profit split. His seconds don't count towards this calculation. With the transport, it's 416 credits/second. Not per cargo per second. Total per second.
Maybe 5 units per second? Five miners and 1 transport = 1041 credits/second/person. Remember, c/s/p, not c/u/s/p.
The formula is pretty simple. U = Units/second, M = number of miners, T = number of total ships involved and C = the number of credits earned by selling one unit.
Assuming; U(M) < 5000
Assuming; Transport Cargo = 5000
Assuming; Transport Time to Deliver < 30 seconds
(UMC)/T = Profit per Second per Person (PPSPP)
For trading...
Assuming; c = Cargo Space
Assuming; P = Profits for one unit of cargo
Assuming; R = Time
Assuming; X = P/R, or credits per second for one unit of cargo (that's usually 2.5 to 2.77; we'll use 2.5 for this. Keep in mind that this is a low number; a LOT of routes are now 2.8 to even 3.4 credits per unit per second now.)
cX = PPSPP
Clearly, trading is somewhat simpler to calculate. Compared (assuming all parties are using 5k transports and, for the miners, mining ships; assuming Miners are mining the Dublin field and delivering to the refinery; assuming there are 5 miners and a transport or 6 traders);
cX = 5000(2.5) = 12,500
(UMC)/T = [(0.3)(5)(250)]/6 = 62.5
That's currently. Considerable difference, isn't it? Now, let's assume it goes of from 1 ore every 3 seconds to 3 ore every 1 second.
cX = 5000(2.5) = 12,500
(UMC)/T = [(3)(5)(250)]/6 = 625
Wow. Still not very good, is it? It's ten times as good, but it's still pathetic. Now let's try something bold. Let's try raising the price of Gold Ore to 1k and increasing it to 5 drops a second.
cX = 5000(2.5) = 12, 500
(UMC)/T = [(5)(5)(1,000)]/6 = 4,166
Guess what? Where traders are earning over three times as much money per second per person as the miners are. The six traders are earning a total of 75,000 credits per second, while the six miners are earning a measly 24,996 between all of them. This is with RIDICULOUS buffs; multiplying drops per second by over sixteen times, multiplying the price four times. It's completely wrong right now.
Now, let's try to make the miners' profits the same as the traders'. Instead of
(UMC)/T = Z
Let's try...
(UMC)/T = 12,500
First we add some numbers.
(5UC)/6 = 12,500
5UC = 75,000
UC = 15,000
So, to equal these low numbers, we have to have the units dropper per second multiplied by the number of credits each unit sells for equal to fifteen thousand. What you also have to do, though, is make the "U" not mean that the transport can't keep up. If the transport can make two runs a minute, the "U" can't be over 10,000 on this particular route. Units need to be balanced on a case-by-case basis, however. Now, if there are two transports, the "U" can be up to 20,000, but it also means T = M + 2. T always = M + the number of transports and the number of escorts.
Now, let's try it in a more realistic situation; Synth Foods using five Mastodons and two escorts on one of their best Synth Paste routes compared to BMM mining in Dublin with six mining ships and one Shire. Even here, the BMM group has an edge. More money-making ships. The first equation pair is how it stands now, and the second is assuming that Gold Ore is suddenly worth 1,200 (instead of 250) credits per unit and is dropping at 10 (instead of 0.3) units per second. Ridiculous, right? Maybe not. For this equation, L = Mastodons.
Synth: (cLX)/T = [(5,000)(4)(2.82)]/6 = 9,400 credits per second for each person.
BMM: (UMC)/T = [(0.3)(5)(250)]/6 = 62.5 credits per second for each person.
Synth: (cLX)/T = [(5,000)(4)(2.82)]/6 = 9,400 credits per second for each person.
BMM: (UMC)/T = [(10)(5)(1,200)]/6 = 10,000 credits per second for each person.
Little more balanced now, isn't it? HOWEVER! Keep in mind that Synth is using two escorts, while BMM isn't using any. Let's assume for a moment that everyone on both sides is earning money.
Synth: cX = (5,000)(2.82) = 14,100 credits per second for each person.
BMM: (UMC)/T = [(10)(5)(1,200)]/6 = 10,000 credits per second for each person.
Little different, isn't it? Thus, to truly balance them against each other, it'd have to be UC = 16,920. Let's try 1,692 credit sell price and 10 units a drop.
Synth: cX = (5,000)(2.82) = 14,100 credits per second for each person.
BMM: (UMC)/T = [(10)(5)(1,692)]/6 = 14,100 credits per second for each person.
DINGDINGDING! There we go! ... But there's still a problem. You have to get six people together just to break even with trading. The idea is to be better than trading if you have enough people, no? So let's try balancing it at three people to break even and see where that goes.
Synth: cX = (5,000)(2.82) = 14,100 credits per second for each person.
BMM: (UMC)/T = [(10)(2)(1,692)]/3 = 11,280 credits per second for each person.
Hm. Yeah, look. For that to work, it'd have to be UC = 21,150. So let's try a sell price of 1,410 for Gold Ore and a drop rate of 15/second.
Synth: cX = (5,000)(2.82) = 14,100 credits per second for each person.
BMM: (UMC)/T = [(15)(2)(1,410)]/3 = 14100 credits per second for each person.
Yup. If you used 6 people at that rate...
Synth: cX = (5,000)(2.82) = 14,100 credits per second for each person.
BMM: (UMC)/T = [(15)(5)(1,410)]/6 = 17,625 credits per second for each person.
See? There you have an increase profit from more people. Twice as many people, 3,525 credits/second total more. Balanced as intended? I think so. That's one field, of course. Other fields would have to be balanced as well.
Feel free to check all my math. Congrats if you read this whole thing.
So what do ya'll think?
Edit: Having calculated the current mining rate, it takes around 12 days, 9 hours, 46 minutes of constant mining 24/7 just for the mining character to pay for itself. That's a lot of mining, people.
Re-edit: SUMMERY:
Mining gold in the Graves field currently makes 23.5 credits for every 14,100 credits the new Synth Foods route makes.
Also, math may be wrong on the Synth route. I'll need to check that again.
Mining Balance - darthbeck - 10-05-2009
i agree that mining has some problems, but gold is the worst thing to mine unless you hual it to kusari, and even then its medocore. find a better spot.
Mining Balance - albert001 - 10-05-2009
TL;DR
Didn't Dusty post some thread regarding reduced mining drops, because mining mode is OFF for some time?
Once it is up again, you get your mining fixed at least partially.
Mining Balance - AJBeast - 10-05-2009
' Wrote:As of right now the mining mod is turned OFF.
Need I say more ? Yields are low 'cause the bonuses aren't on.
Mining Balance - Silmathien - 10-06-2009
Imho BMM is screwed up. Everywhere seems IMG to be the first. In Cambridge and Dublin they got bases. LD-14 you can forget cause of enduring attacks from Kusari. Gaians are troubling too. Not to mention the Buc. BMM is surrounded by enemies, even in their zoi. Omega 3 Station is too near to the jumphole to Omega 5. And Tau...you can't be serious with all the Outcasts and CR there. Furthermore IMG is also hostile to BMM...
Some advise or tips/tricks to mine as BMM?
Mining Balance - agentmike - 10-06-2009
have you read this?
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=49044
Mining Balance - Elsdragon - 10-06-2009
TL:DR
Thanks for using me an an example though
Mining Balance - Denelo - 10-06-2009
' Wrote:TL:DR
Thanks for using me an an example though
Heh, sure.
To everyone else: Yeah, I somehow managed to miss that thread until after I wrote this up. Could someone close this thread? Thanks.