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+--- Thread: About cardamine (/showthread.php?tid=29469)
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About cardamine - rozsdasjoe - 11-06-2009
' Wrote:... I'm not talking about the cardamine itself, it's about the way they get it. It's a difference if you are inhaling it or walking over the surface of Malta, getting in touch with it over your whole body with every step you make. Besides, cardi is no cigarette, not sure who had the idea you would have to light it. I'm sure noone had the idea to set Maltas air on fire before they noticed the DNA chaging effects the first time (no, not even the corsairs, they didn't meet each other back then). And it still altered their DNA.
On a further note: as your character doesn't seem to feel the need to inhale it but instead prefers to burn it, an injection of liquid cardamine would most likely kill you.
Well, I was thinking about cardi - the actual plant itself and the usage as a drug. First of all lets define drugs as substances what alters the normal functioning of the body when released into the bloodstream. The ways of the usage can differ until the actual toxin reaches the brain and the hormon producing organs. I'll go trough the ways of it can be done, but start with imagining cardamin as a plant.
The name 'cardamin' rings a bell of anyone? I cant help myself, but there's a herb called cardamon. It has strange taste, it can be used as a spice and much, but I just simply prefer chewing it. And I cant help myself imagining cardi similar in looks and taste. For reference check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardamom.
So we have a herb with litle seed-pods, orange seeds in them and bitter smelling pollen. The actual chemical what affects the body is concentrated highly in the seeds and in the pollen. At spring the spores of cardi' fills the Maltese air - and it remains in the waters, sticks to plants, ingested by animals the whole year. When the pollen concentrated in the air (like springtime aroud a field) its realy fresh and effective, but can easyli fill the lungs of one, suffocating her. Thats why the laborers on the fields wear masks. Only the most hardended outcasts can sniff one line into the nose without coughing it out.
And there are the seeds. It would be the best for usage by ingestion, the only problem with it its entangling bitter taste and irritation in the stomach what's not comfortable even for the most veteran users. It can be used for spice - the effect remains, but you cant put too mutch in your food if you want to keep it tasty and edible. However the seeds itself are the primary exportation form of the plant.
The most common way of consumption is done by the lungs. You have two choice there - burning or vaporizing it after liquidated. The first option is well spread around common people of Malta, as it can be done with the seed itself without further processing. Its used as an incentive at temples, and its realy unlikely for me that I should roll my own cardi-cigarettes instead of buying a pack of it.
And finaly, after processing the seeds liquid cardamin can be gained. When vaporized, its easier to inhale than the smoke, and a small mechanism (refered as 'masks') can supply the user with a constant toxin amount in the bloodstream. These are the litle black stuff what you see on the outcast's face if you meet one on a station. Consider it a courtesy that not the whole air is filled with it on the installations where outsiders may dock. Ant there's also the well-known cardi-coke, but you should notice that it only contains about 1-3% liquid cardamin.
And now the hard part. Veteran users, impatients, and maltese after a period of withdrawal. They cant realy wait until the vaporizer kicks in, and rolling a cigarette is realy hard with trembling hands. So the addict either risks to damage her stomach by eating raw seeds, or risks an overdose of the liquid. It can be injected dicrectly to the bloodstream - very dangerous indeed, but small portions of it can be brought in by the thin veins near the skin's surface. Namely by dripping (slowly and carefuly) either into the eye, under the tongue, to the genitals or even into the guts.
Hope it was helpful, please if you find my thoughts not fitting into the 'offical' picture of cardi tell me, i just couldnt find any revealing stuff about the topic.
Blessed ya be!
About cardamine - Belco - 11-06-2009
i've always thought it was a reference to morphine/heroin and that malta was full of orange poppy fields
About cardamine - rozsdasjoe - 11-06-2009
Well its an extraterrestrial palnt, orange poppy is just as good as kardamon-cardamom as I only refered it for me to have a basic idea what it is look like and taste. But you cant be poppy addicted no matter how mutch time you spend on the fields.
Comparing with heroin.. Well I didnt get into its effects (yet, but thats the next phase), but as far as I read cardi is not that addictive. From what I read on the topic dependence should take weeks to form when someone not using it directly jus got exposed to spores. Note that heroin users have physical withdrawal symptomes after 2-3 use and psychological dependence can form after even the first use. It looks for me that you can try cardi in some cases without getting addicted, as others said even for some days.
Opium, thats it. Dependency is slow(er) to form, hard to break as with any hard drugs. It just wont realy fits because you cant realy fly a spaceship high on that. Or not for long. Maybe when tolerance forms, but I still wont suggest it to anyone.
Morphin? Well someone more educated than me should comment.
However the gene altering thingie... I guess something like this should take time. Like some years maybe. But for me its sounds perfectly reasonable that someone takes cardamin for ten years for example can die from withdraw like any Malta-born outcast.
About cardamine - Dab - 11-06-2009
I don't know where Ceoran came up with that stuff, but Outcasts don't -have- to go to Malta all the time. There are even Outcasts who go to Malta at most once a year. The entire invention of Cardi Masks was to allow Outcasts to leave Malta and not suffer side effects of any kind.
Furthermore, Cardamine only affects you through inhalation. Touching your skin won't do anything. That's like saying Morphine will affect you because some got on your skin.. No. I gets in through breathing it, not through it seeping into your skin.
Liquid Cardi -will- kill you no matter what. That's part of the lore. Outcasts are still trying to research a way to get Liquid Cardi to be injected without killing someone. I believe however that you can take Liquid Cardi and heat it into a gas that is the same as normal Cardi gas, though it'll be thicker if you keep it in a confined space. That's why it's a good thing to smuggle, as it's hard to detect and small, but provides a large amount of Cardi.
About cardamine - McNeo - 11-06-2009
' Wrote:Liquid Cardi -will- kill you no matter what. That's part of the lore. Outcasts are still trying to research a way to get Liquid Cardi to be injected without killing someone. I believe however that you can take Liquid Cardi and heat it into a gas that is the same as normal Cardi gas, though it'll be thicker if you keep it in a confined space. That's why it's a good thing to smuggle, as it's hard to detect and small, but provides a large amount of Cardi.
I didn't read that part of the lore.
Oops.
I suppose Christina Robinson should be dead then:mellow:.
Or she just has resistance! Wohoo.
EDIT: I knew I wanted to make a more important point:
I've heard from some people that as soon as you take Cardamine, you're addicted from life.
Im not sure if thats the general consensus or not, but it sounds a bit silly to me as a concept.
There isn't a single drug, legal or illegal, that you can't be weaned off given enough time.
What makes Cardamine different?
*stares at Johnpeter*
About cardamine - Dab - 11-06-2009
' Wrote:I didn't read that part of the lore.I made that mistake too.. Except I was using it before Liquid Cardi was designed mod-wise.. >.> I haz excuse.
Oops.
I suppose Christina Robinson should be dead then:mellow:.
Or she just has resistance! Wohoo.
' Wrote:EDIT: I knew I wanted to make a more important point:Because, unlike other drugs, Cardamine changes your DNA. An addiction you can wean off of. You can't undo changes to your DNA, that's permanent.
I've heard from some people that as soon as you take Cardamine, you're addicted from life.
Im not sure if thats the general consensus or not, but it sounds a bit silly to me as a concept.
There isn't a single drug, legal or illegal, that you can't be weaned off given enough time.
What makes Cardamine different?
*stares at Johnpeter*
You can't wean yourself off of Water.. Same goes for Cardamine. After it affects your DNA, your hooked for good.
But I don't agree with the 'one use and your addicted.' Maybe after 3-4 times you are addicted, or a high concentrated amount, or getting a Cardi Mask stuffed on your face for a few hours. Then you may be addicted.
About cardamine - McNeo - 11-06-2009
' Wrote:Because, unlike other drugs, Cardamine changes your DNA. An addiction you can wean off of. You can't undo changes to your DNA, that's permanent.
You can't wean yourself off of Water.. Same goes for Cardamine. After it affects your DNA, your hooked for good.
But I don't agree with the 'one use and your addicted.' Maybe after 3-4 times you are addicted, or a high concentrated amount, or getting a Cardi Mask stuffed on your face for a few hours. Then you may be addicted.
I thought that was long term use...? 3-4 times isn't long term, is it?
I would've thought that long term would have meant something like 3-4 years rather than times.
But that was never specified in vanilla...
About cardamine - rozsdasjoe - 11-06-2009
About Liquid cardi... ..I didnt disambiguated. Yeah there is a commodity made by the nomads, its real misterious and I'm not in the nomad stuff to say anithing about that. Nor the origins of the plant what is also connected to the them. I leave those questions for keeper players.
But that doesent means the Malta grown cardi cant be liquidified by outcasts - take cardi-cola for example. for me its hard to imagine the 'cardamin gas' in those masks. On what temperature its in gas-form? And how it made to that? For me the logical solution looks like those mask contain a liquid, what's destilled from the harvested seeds, and after vaporization it can be inhaled.
And about the time of forming a dependence.. I'd leave it to players who RP's an addict, who else would care how long was it exactly to become a junkie.
About cardamine - Dab - 11-06-2009
' Wrote:I thought that was long term use...? 3-4 times isn't long term, is it?After a few years it finishes adjusting your DNA. 3-4 times before your addicted. Cardi still has normal addiction attributes. Craving and all. The DNA happens over a few years and by then you're addicted the normal way and the DNA-way. And if you try to wean off the craving might go away eventually, but then your body will start killing itself because it's missing a vital resource that it now requires to run; Cardi.
I would've thought that long term would have meant something like 3-4 years rather than times.
But that was never specified in vanilla...
' Wrote:About Liquid cardi... ..I didnt disambiguated. Yeah there is a commodity made by the nomads, its real misterious and I'm not in the nomad stuff to say anithing about that. Nor the origins of the plant what is also connected to the them. I leave those questions for keeper players.Cardi Cola, Cardi Tea, Cardi etc were all made by players whos knowledge of Cardamine is less than complete. They don't exist in lore, and there are reasons they don't.. Treewyrm should be able to give more information than anyone else about Liquid Cardi.
But that doesent means the Malta grown cardi cant be liquidified by outcasts - take cardi-cola for example. for me its hard to imagine the 'cardamin gas' in those masks. On what temperature its in gas-form? And how it made to that? For me the logical solution looks like those mask contain a liquid, what's destilled from the harvested seeds, and after vaporization it can be inhaled.
And about the time of forming a dependence.. I'd leave it to players who RP's an addict, who else would care how long was it exactly to become a junkie.
About cardamine - Ash - 11-06-2009
I like to think of Cardamine plants looking most like hay or wheat, but with a funny looking alien twist to it. I suppose you could burn it, but from basic chemistry; when you burn something it turns into something else. This 'something else' may not have the same desired effect or may turn into inert substances useless for any sort of satisfaction/relief.
I'd imagine they'd turn it into a vapour of loose solidified particles/crystals, alot like smoke or aerosol if you like, and keep it compressed in gas canisters.