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+--- Thread: Couple of questions... (/showthread.php?tid=3043)
Couple of questions... - Krenshaw - 06-09-2007
Greetings,
Well, I have been flying around in Sirius Space and as of late this has become a bother. There are a few reasons, and most of them involve whether some people are following the rules. Now that is easier said than done, because in most cases the rules, despite being well written, are not always surefire. The questions I have for example I did not see in the rules, now I had asked Korrd *glares* but he decided he would not answer at the time and I should post my questions for the sake of debate. Now consider he didn't just tell me to re-read the rules I assume I am on to something.
1) Am I wrong in saying that the individuals with house military ids must act like their NPC brethren. At least outside of their home system.(Yes, I realize that SOI/ZOI are on poll currently, but at least in the sense of an answer for now..)
2) Say I have been...*glances around*..smuggling. Well, say I get by a blockade of the house Military and dock safely, am I still eligible for attack once I have undocked? This may sound stupid, but if the context of the above question is correct then whenever I dock, assuming i still had the drop contraband window open, then the NPCs will act like nothing happened.
3) Now, say I have been added to a kos list for smuggling(yeah, sad I know), the first question would make this impossible. I also think this is....unfair. I have read the faction rules and whatnot, but all the house militarys save for one, say that once the trader is killed or he pays, back to square one. With the one in exception not having its rules posted i assume they would follow the Bretonian and rheinland space rules(roughly) as they are all so similar. So assuming one of the two previous actions occur the person should have a "clean " record. Same thing as sending someone to prison. They disappear and come back as what society hopes is rehabilitated.
4) I have noticed that SA tend to "camp" texas. I believe this is kind of anti RP, and not only that but should the first question be answered as correct then this is wrong entirely. You may wonder why, but it should be clear. As the Navy for liberty space they are supposed to patrol all of liberty space, meaning in order to do a patrol they couldn't camp texas for over an hour. Same thing with the NPC bit, they move around in and out of system.I could understand up to ten minutes, after that it is camping(with exclusion to combat of course) This would mean that SA on patrol just finish the texas patrol are just out of sytem, and when they see someone pop into texas their patrol of texas is done until they conduct a patrol of equal length in the rest of Liberty(now if you want to say they only need to patrol a couple of different systems that sounds reasonable, because it is a possibility that you might have another patrol doing the systems left out. Now I thought that a standardized patrol time might work best, but as to how long....no idea. I would say that yes if there is a conflict or something in one system and another patrol is elsewhere, pulling the other patrol to that location would make sense.
Well, this post has gotten quite a bit longer than I intended, so apologies for occupying your time for a length, but the issues above are real issues that should be addressed, and when the admin get an adequate opinion of the populace, then we may begin to see results. As to how this ends i leave it in the capable hands of the admin and the populace of Sirius.
Good Day
Krenshaw
PS I won't be popping in with exception to clear things up my schedule is ugly for this next week =P
Couple of questions... - Craines - 06-09-2007
If you smuggle in Kusari space, we have every right to kill you, regardless of whether you are currently smuggling. Further, we can ask other House factions to do the same.
I personally think it is full of RP. Then again, it's just me. And I'm weird. So maybe I'm not the most reliable source?
I await my colleges' responses.
Harley
Couple of questions... - Razr - 06-09-2007
heh well he's probably refering to SA and yes we are doing it and we won't stop so he obviously wants to die. Hey we'll stop when smuggling is over pal. there are toher profitable trade routes.
Couple of questions... - Krenshaw - 06-09-2007
Well, I have a few minutes to spare and this is what my efforts have unveiled. First of all this whole post here is supposed to get these answers that it seems no one(that i talked to at least) in game can actually give a definite answer. I see some people have brought an opinion of another nature in here. :angry: You will pardon me, I hope, as this was not meant to offend anyone or bring people in so they could post about how much the smugglers need to die on and on and on. The entire point of this post is to get the answers to the questions above. I did this because korrd asked me to do so when I asked him for the answers.
Now, that aside, the people of the forum have enough RP posts where you can go and use your threats(promises to those of you feeling smart). All that is needed here are people with valid arguments on the points above, if you will not participate in a meaningful way then all in all I'd rather not have those individuals post.
I will recognize that the people this was mostly directed at have shown their opinions in form. They are obviously in favor of no restrictions hunting of smugglers, even while they may be legitimate traders at the time. Fair enough that is an opinion; however the other part of the post seems to say, "I have no interest in knowledge, all i care about is my way. I am right..." Thats an issue, because this post is in the persuit of knowledge*.
*knowledge: knowl-edge, acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles, as from study or investigation; general erudition: knowledge of many things.
I would appreciate if everyone would make the effort from now on....
Good day
Krenshaw
PS: I apologize if this sounds rude, but i was in a hurry and didn't check it over well.
PPS Sorry I forgot this at first, but yes Harley that is an opinion but I would appreciate if you would more directly answer a question rather than veil threats along with an answer of a broader nature.
Couple of questions... - McNeo - 06-09-2007
If you dock then undock as a trader, you can be killed (over and over again). But equally, once you have docked, you can F1 and change to a different character, but thats not to be used to kill who was just chasing you. PC factions are generally smarter than NPC factions and they remember who you are. NPC factions still adress you as "Freelancer Alpha...." so PC factions acting like NPC factions is a kind of half and half. PC factions fulfill the same roll as NPC factions, but they do so with more efficiency and act how militaries would act towards the certain kind of player, regardless of whether they are green in the HUD or not.
Believe it or not, The SA only patrol Texas and California, the North Alliance (who dont exist at the moment) patrol colorado and the border systems there.
Basically, you cant get away with what you could in SP freelancer:P.
Hey, even I do a bit of smuggling here and there. I just never go into house space. I nearly got caught by an RM doing it, but he was in sigma 13 so he couldnt do anything to me;).
Couple of questions... - Craines - 06-09-2007
Answer to question one: Must a house faction act like their respective house faction outside of their House Faction's territory? The answer is yes, but raises the logical question of why that person is out of their jurisdiction. Let us imagine that I am in Liberty Space whilst driving my Kusari Destroyer. Let us then imagine that you, being a smuggler, have a full load of cardamine. Finally, let us imagine that the Southern Alliance has contacted me via private channels and requested my assistance in apprehending you.
At this point, I can indeed aid the Southern Alliance and open fire. Now, let us remove the SA from the equation. In that event, I cannot engage you until I am given authority from the ruling body of the system I am in. Now, if you were to then enter Shikoku, I could open fire with extreme prejudice, regardless of whether you had dropped the cargo or not. Why is that? Because I know that you are a smuggler, and I have seen you smuggling. Because I have seen first hand that you are breaking the law, I can exercise whatever I deem necessary insofar as justice is concerned upon your entry into my space, which is the same territory as House Kusari. (However, this is an entirely hypothetical situation, and if I did find you in game without you smuggling, I could not simply open fire. I would need to first see you in the act. By "I", that means anyone in my faction that can inform me of it.)
Answer to question two: Must a house faction give amnesty for a smuggler when a smuggler has brought illegal contraband into the House Faction territory (or, must a House Government player faction forgive smugglers upon the said smuggler selling or dropping the contraband in the House Government's Territory)? The answer is no, for the simple reasons given by McNeo. Player Factions are a tad bit more intelligent than the Non-Player Counterparts (NPCs, if you will), and that means we won't give up. If you are caught smuggling, and by caught that means seen with any contraband in your hold that you do not immediately drop upon being requested to do so (having more than 30 units of cardamine is also considered incriminating evidence), then you can be placed in the Known-Offenders System (KOS, if you will), or simply be banned from returning to the area that you were caught smuggling in; i.e. if you are smuggling in House Kusari, and a Kusari Naval Faction player sees you, then we can permanently ban you from House Kusari on pain of death.
Another hypothetical problem. Let us imagine that a civilian has stated that you have cardamine in your hold. Upon reaching you, there is no such narcotic in your hold. What do we do? We must let you go. The civilian could have a vendetta against you and that brings in all sorts of problems insofar as justice is concerned. Therefore, the only word that must be taken at face-value and enacts an immediate registration upon the KOS is if you are witnessed by an officer of the law. In the event of multiple witnesses, a warning will be given. If it is over 5 witnesses, KOS registration is at the discretion of the officer.
Answer to question three: Can a smuggler clear his record by paying fines and compensation? The answer depends heavily on which faction he is interacting with is. For example, the Kusari Naval Forces has no official policy on the matter, but smugglers are often determined and set on the KOS registry. Is it unfair? Of course it isn't. It is a matter of perspective, but it does make smuggling a much harder profession. Smuggle smart would be a fun logo for smugglers everywhere in relations to smuggling within House Faction territories.
If a smuggler pays a bribe in order to no longer be in the KOS registry, the human who plays the officer will not forget his name and will look at the smuggler with intense scrutiny. That being said, the difference between the PCs and their NPCs is just that - memory. If the NPCs went hostile on the first time you didn't drop your cargo, moving in that House Faction's space would be utterly impossible due to the obscene amount of NPCs that there are. However, when there are but a few PCs running about, it makes smuggling more difficult without making it impossible. And if you don't always make it to your destination, well, that's the name of the game.
Answer to question four: Does the Southern Alliance have to go about all of Liberty, or can they be stationed? Well the SA can go and stay wherever they so choose for however long they want to, especially since they are, as McNeo stated, confined to those areas of Liberty. My destroyer stays in Honshu mostly, up until such a time as a criminal is identified elsewhere. Then, I can search for as long as I feel I must. Why can I spend hours in Honshu? Because my embassy is on Planet Honshu, and it makes total sense for my vessel to be stationed outside while I'm taking care of things.
Within a House Faction's territory, the house faction can do whatever they deem necessary to keep the peace. On that note, however, it is frowned upon when people take this to an extreme and crowd around a single jump gate in order to catch a perp. Now, let us imagine that the KNF are chasing a smuggler. Let's say we know he's coming out of a jump hole in five minutes. We can set up a trap. Jump holes and jump gates are different in that respect. Why? Because there aren't any lawful NPCs around a jump hole, so they are free game.
That is my extended view, without the veiled threats and such. Everything I stated here is my official opinion on the matter, and answers your four questions (three questions and an attack on the SA, if I may say so, which, I guess, I'm allowed to) concisely and with adequate use of logic and knowledge. Further, I hope that you find these answers to be satisfactory. If someone else posts contradictory information, then it is up to you to decide who to believe. To that end, I hope that no one else's opinion conflicts with mine, but it is very easy for it to occur. Thank you for your time,
Harlequinn
Couple of questions... - fwolf - 06-09-2007
Krenshaw, since you seems to be new here, let me explain to you: this server is hostile to unlawfuls, in any respect. For example: according to server rules, traders cant be attacked by cruisers and battleships, this is applied to any trader, from the most small freighter to the most bigger transport. However, this rule is only enforced upon unlawfuls. Lawfuls with battleships can attack traders when these traders are smugling contraband in their territory and refuse to pay the fine. Unlawfuls cant do the same when pirating.
Since then, unlawful activity is reduced in the server. This includes pirating and smugling. The rules are unfair, and made to satisfy the interests of a group of crying babies who are afraid of some increasing on piracy that can happens in case these rules are not in place. And worse is, these same crying babies complain later that theres no pirate in the server to attack their traders and provide them some fun.
Other thing is about the character switching. According to the rules of engagement, if you dock, you are out of the battle and cant return in, say, one hour. However, the crying babies, when they are flying with their traders and are attacked and pursued by pirates, dock at the first station they find, and then switch to a battleship. And nothing happens. If the pirate do the same and switch to a battleship, he is accused of pirating with a battleship, and then the crying baby says he took a screenshot of the pirate switching ships, that this is against rules of engagement and will denounce him to the admins. That is most of the talk in open channels: ooc constantly and not a single bit of roleplaying.
But theres more. Theres a lot of division among the pirates themselves. This is not only about the outcasts vs corsairs thing, which is part of the game, but about personal vendettas, arrogance and exclusivism. A pirate hails other pirate who is of the same affiliation, but this other pirate is part of some club-type clan, and dont hails him in return. Why? Because of arrogance, of a empty, weak ego that needs the construct of "being a elite". And what this leads to? To more division. Hence is common to see lawfuls grouping together against a single pirate, and this pirate will be in a gunboat when at the same time, the lawfuls will be in battleships. Add to this the constant flaming in the forums, with the crying babies trying to pass some new rule to restrain the gameplay of the unlawfuls even more, creating what I call ruleplaying.
So, theres some options: or you will go to the pvp server, or you try another mod, which for me is not a problem, since the large train have more armor than a gunboat. Just compare: 120k of armor for the large train, against 100k of armor for the dragon gunboat. Put the armor upgrades and youll see a large train with more armor than a unarmored cruiser. In my understanding, more cargo in a ship means less armor, not the contrary, but who cares? Good luck to you and your smuggling.
Couple of questions... - Craines - 06-09-2007
Of course, F Wolf has forgotten that the idea of multiple lawful players to the number of unlawful players varies in the place to which you are currently at. For example, the amount of Blood Dragons (players) to the amount of Kusari Naval Forces (players) is often skewed in favor of the Blood Dragons. What F Wolf has also forgotten is that pirating should very rarely occur in the core systems of a House Faction - a Kusari Naval Forces pilot will often not pursue a pirate in Sigma 13 or 17, despite both systems being connected to Honshu. Why? Because we do not technically have jurisdiction there, and therefore, lest we incur the wrath of the Gas Miners Guild, stay well away.
Further, Shikoku is a rarely patrolled area because of the large Bounty Hunter influence. The same goes for that one place way up north... it is connected to Chugoku, but I can't seem to remember the name of it. Oh well. You know what I'm talking about! The fact I can't remember it seems to indicate that I've been there only once before (it's not that interesting. If only the Chugoku jump gate was finished... hehehe) and that means I don't go there often. Pirates can often escape from the KNF there. And no, before someone attempts to say that I'm making the KNF seem perfect, I'm not - it's just that I only have experience with the KNF and our patrol patterns, and therefore, can only draw upon that experience for examples. I'm sure similar tales can be heard from the other House Governments.
I have only one problem with F Wolf's post, however, and that is the fact that he fails to make a clear division between pirates and unlawful factions in general. There are three unlawful sub-nomenclatures that are important to recognize. There is the pirate, perhaps the most common of the non-clanned players. There is the terrorist, which is a multi-faceted unlawful status (a terrorist can be a freedom fighter, a vigilante against a foreign enemy, or, in the case of Xenos, xenophobic fighters.). And finally, there is the Unlawful Mercenary that is epitomized by the Hellfire Legion.
The best part about Discovery, and Freelancer in general, is that there aren't defined sides. There isn't a good side and a bad side. That is what some humans want, especially in real life. Humans, in general, wish to know where an attack might come from and prepare. The fact that criminals in the game are against one another, just as Bretonia is against Kusari (lawful v. lawful), means that there is a great array enemies for any particular person. It makes the game more dynamic. While F Wolf, who I feel neither gratitude nor hatred for (ergo, no, I'm not flaming him, I'm simply addressing the comments made in his post), seems to not like the idea of vendettas, it must be acknowledged that there will be these vendettas. People won't like people for the strangest of reasons. Does that change the matter? No.
However, I feel I have strayed from the original reason for this thread, and I am sorry. I simply am deconstructing the post by my college F Wolf because I do not believe it exemplifies the aspects of Discovery that I enjoy. I hope everyone who reads this, F Wolf in particular, understands that I am not attempting to attack F Wolf, but am simply applying logic and argument to his reply. If that is out of line, I apologize. Thank you for your time,
Harlequinn
Couple of questions... - Kira1997 - 06-09-2007
For the love of god cease the prose! My mind will melt. Now I know why I did not become a lawyer. I could not take the writing and reading:)
Couple of questions... - Craines - 06-09-2007
Prose is writing distinguished from poetry by its greater variety of rhythm and its closer resemblance to the patterns of everyday speech. The word prose comes from the Latin prosa, meaning straightforward, hence the term "prosaic," which is often seen as pejorative. Prose describes the type of writing that prose embodies, unadorned with obvious stylistic devices. Prose writing is usually adopted for the description of facts or the discussion of whatever one's thoughts are, incorporated in free flowing speech. Thus, it may be used for newspapers, capers, magazines, encyclopedias, broadcast media, films, letters, debtor's notes, famous quotes, murder mystery, history, philosophy, biography, linguistic geography and many other forms of media.
It's so appropriate here!