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+--- Thread: Turning the Geb Carrier into a Heavy Battleship (/showthread.php?tid=34729)
Turning the Geb Carrier into a Heavy Battleship - Tenacity - 02-13-2010
This idea was presented by Megiddo in my capship rebalancing thread, and so far the people from the order I've talked to seem to be in favor of it. I'd like some more opinions on this specific topic though, so here's the poll.
First off, the reasoning behind the proposed change:
-The current geb is not truly a battlecruiser, it's twice as large as the other bc's and has no battleship weaponry. It's more of a gimped battleship in terms of size/defense, or an oversized heavy cruiser.
-Many complain that it's overpowered and abused, for a number of reasons. As a battlecruiser, it is the best ship of it's class, able to tromp any other bc or cruiser into the ground with relative ease. The ship is overly used because it is often seen as a 'poor man's battleship' - giving a large number of guns and a bs shield, as well as above-average armor for a bc, for a relatively low price.
-Those who do fly it quickly realize it's disadvantages outweigh the perceived advantages - it is absolutely horrid against bombers and small gunboats due to the large size, which also has a negative effect on the cruiser weapons it's forced to use. They simply do not have the range needed for such a large craft - all other BC's are half the size of the geb, and dont suffer quite the same problems.
Arguments go both ways - but the consensus seems to be that the ship is just too much of an oddity as it is, too much of a mangled hybrid between the battlecruiser and battleship classes. Further, the order's osiris - while good against smaller light battleships similar to itself - cannot really stand up to the heavy craft our primary enemy uses - the nomad battleship (which is a heavy battleship, not a light bs). Some people would rather have the geb turned into a typical battlecruiser - smaller size, and a mix of bs/cruiser weaponry, but that change, while it would balance the ship properly, would remove any capability of maintaining itself as a carrier-class craft.
All other carriers in the mod - the IMG carrier, zoner carrier, and liberty carrier - are battleship class craft. Being balanced as battleships allows them to be large enough to realistically fill their roles as a carrier - you can imagine those craft launching fighters, but the geb's current model, despite looking like a carrier, is unrealistically small for the job. In addition, the others - being balanced as battleships - can use weaponry which is appropriate for their defense. Flak turrets, battleship solaris, battleship razors - these allow a much larger ship the ability to defend itself; the geb's cruiser-class turrets are all balanced on the basis of being used on much smaller craft, and thus are entirely ineffective.
Now, on to the specifics:
-The geb would receive a new model, similar in size to the kusari bs, zoner juggernaut, liberty carrier, rheinland bs, etc. etc. A model that is appropriate in size for a heavy battleship.
-The ship would be rebalanced along those same lines - it's turret number would drop to either 16 or 17 guns (for reference the rheinland bs and kusari bs have 18 turrets, and the juggernautberty carrier have 16), it would gain a heavy battleship power core (9 million capacity, 300,000 recharge), and appropriate heavy-bs level hull strength (1.4-1.5 million). In addition, it would lose it's thruster and cruise disruptor (as no battleship-class craft have thrusters), and all turrets would now be class-10.
-All players who have had their Geb for a minimum of 6 months receive a free battleship license once the change goes through. Players who have owned theirs for less time do not receive a battleship license, and must pay for one in order to continue using the ship.
-Once the change is made, all weapons are wiped from the ship - players must purchase the new battleship-class turrets themselves. All other equipment (thrusters and cruise disruptors excluded) including armor, countermeasure dropper, ID, etc. would remain intact.
Hopefully this will also reduce the number of gebs in use, it was always intended to be a rare ship but - as stated above - many players 'spam' it because it's a cheap 'battleship'.
If anyone here has any suggestions on the specifics, please, post them - we're definitely looking for input on the idea still. I've asked Jinx to conceptualize a new model for the proposed heavy battleship version of the Geb, if he has time to create it.
Turning the Geb Carrier into a Heavy Battleship - Tovig - 02-13-2010
I say : let's go for it.:nyam:
Turning the Geb Carrier into a Heavy Battleship - Tenacity - 02-13-2010
bumping this before i'm out for the night.
Turning the Geb Carrier into a Heavy Battleship - kindred - 02-13-2010
Meh, just another ship trying to be brought under the control of the bloody factions.
Najm will still fly across the green whatchamacallit with a mob squad of LNS in tow with
no indifference to cruiser or bs class. Anything but the bloody Osiris it used to be for years on end.
Turning the Geb Carrier into a Heavy Battleship - lolciclepops - 02-13-2010
I've chosen "Undecided" from this one, although I would like to say that the current Geb Model is a work of art. It would be a shame to let it go.
Seeing as it's a little bigger than most light battleships, and not big enough for a heavy battleship, maybe a hybrid class of both?
Turning the Geb Carrier into a Heavy Battleship - Tenacity - 02-13-2010
Just as a side note - if you're going to vote no, at least say why, perhaps the idea can be altered to suit you.
' Wrote:I've chosen "Undecided" from this one, although I would like to say that the current Geb Model is a work of art. It would be a shame to let it go.
Seeing as it's a little bigger than most light battleships, and not big enough for a heavy battleship, maybe a hybrid class of both?
It's the same size as the osiris. It would be pointless turning it into a 'light' battleship, as we already have the osiris filling that exact role - anything more powerful requires a change to the ship model. Anything less powerful requires a change to the ship model, as well.
Either way, if a change is going to be made to the ship's stats, the model will have to be altered to follow suit. The order requires a heavy battleship, I think the geb's rebalancing is a perfect opportunity to take advantage of that - fixing two birds with one stone, as it were =P
Turning the Geb Carrier into a Heavy Battleship - lolciclepops - 02-13-2010
' Wrote:Just as a side note - if you're going to vote no, at least say why, perhaps the idea can be altered to suit you.
It's the same size as the osiris. It would be pointless turning it into a 'light' battleship, as we already have the osiris filling that exact role - anything more powerful requires a change to the ship model. Anything less powerful requires a change to the ship model, as well.
Either way, if a change is going to be made to the ship's stats, the model will have to be altered to follow suit. The order requires a heavy battleship, I think the geb's rebalancing is a perfect opportunity to take advantage of that - fixing two birds with one stone, as it were =P
I do suppose you're right.
However, with the Thebes coming in 4.86, that would make 3 battleships within RP.
Within PVP, the only other heavy battleships the Order will be facing is the Liberty Carrier - however, I've heard many people tell tales of how the Osiris can easily beat the average Liberty Carrier.
So for what need is there to have a heavy battleship?
Turning the Geb Carrier into a Heavy Battleship - Boss - 02-13-2010
There are billions of those things already on the server. Upgrading them means billions of heavy BSs.
Turning the Geb Carrier into a Heavy Battleship - Rodent - 02-13-2010
Quote:So for what need is there to have a heavy battleship?
Tena mentioned the keeper battleship, which is de-facto one of the most powerful. Counter-argument for that, Keepers never take out their battleships.
I am fine by the idea, but it would be seldom used. Order needs improvement in their fighter-to-gunboat class ships more, but that is another discussion.
Turning the Geb Carrier into a Heavy Battleship - ryoken - 02-13-2010
I voted no. Everyone wanted the "light carrier" It is not a battle cruiser per say in 4.84.and everyone was like"i am so going to get one" that is including you Teanacity. Now it is here,and everyone wants it changed/modified. Live with it. At least it has a Thruster. Try the LABC. No thruster. I say if Order wants another ship? give them a light cruiser,not a bigger Battle ship. What i would truly like to see in the Order is a Light fighter.