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+--- Thread: Dealing with the inactivity of Rheinland outlaws (/showthread.php?tid=36967)
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Dealing with the inactivity of Rheinland outlaws - Sturmwind - 03-21-2010
I believe we are all aware of the dire situation most Rheinland outlaw factions (Volksfront, LWB, Alster Union) have to face. The lack of activity is no longer a problem we could deny, I'm inclined to say.
Following a few discussions within the Rheinland Revolutionary Alliance chat, we mostly concluded that the problem lies within the similar ZoIs, which consist of the Rheinland inner systems. An observant person might note that the Red Hessians always have 4-5 active factions or player groups at the same time to represent their side (atm it's the Red Hessian Army, Hessian Tears [yes, I know they merged], Rot Front and Smokeone), which could easily fill up any of the three currently inactive Rheinland outlaw organizations.
No, I'm not saying any of the currently active Hessian factions should suddenly become LWB/VF/AU. I would, on the other hand propose/suggest measurements that might make these three factions somewhat more attractive, as the RM wouldn't be the only opposition you'd have to face, and Rheinland traders wouldn't be the only ones that you'd have to deal with.
Before I start, I'd like to note that some of these suggestions might be stupid/OORP/radical/impossible to manage. But the reason for this thread is to discuss it, no?
Volksfront:
Allow me to start with my own faction, the Volksfront. I would recommend increasing the ZoI to the Sigmas (13, 19). The RP background could be negotiated with the GMG, the opposition we'd have to face would be Corsairs who don't look upon our expansion as favorable. If you really insist, I can commence/continue negotiations with Malcolm Arison (my VF char), as well as setting up the RP behind why we would ever want to leave our beloved Vaterland.
The other piece of increasing would be towards New Hampshire and perhaps even Quebec. We have a base in Bremen anyway, we could organize shootouts between the LN and us. We don't support the war, but we don't support the Libertonians taking over either.
Another note regarding the VF, I think we shouldn't continue the "oh no, we don't pirate" approach, now officially. We experimented with dealing out the word to traders regarding the revolution as well as "confiscating" anything from them that could be of use to us or harmful to the Rheinland people (military vehicles, light arms, (political) prisoners, H-fuel, luxuries, gold, etc.) It would be RP piracy, not to fill our pockets.
Summary: VF to Hampshire and Sigmas, get RP piracy on the schedule.
Alster Union:
I know the AU tends to raid into Hudson and Bering, but that could be extended to Texas, preferably to the grounds of piracy. There's a lot of juicy trader and supply ships inbound towards Hudson and Hampshire, with goods the AU could use. The Libertonian government declared the AU as hostile anyway, regarding the blood diamond situation of the recent times. It's not like the LN would bomb Pacifica for a few lost supplies, but they could definitely send down a few patrol wings to protect the said convoys, causing bountiful encounters pvp and RP-wise, the way I see it.
Also, someone on the RRA chat noted that the AU are actually terrorists, not revolutionaries in the common sense. That's not what I've personally seen from their side, but more like the common worker liberation-revolutionary propaganda side. I think the AU could somehow begin acting like the Xenos or pirates, they would still be supporting the other revolutionary movements, but could ruthlessly blast any civilian and corporate asset they encounter aswell. Basically, their primary aim would be to cripple the authorities WHILE filling their pockets and causing terror, notably than what for example the VF does.
Summary: AU to Texas and possibly to connecting systems (discluding NY and Cali), enforce the terrorist approach more.
Landwirtrechtbewegung:
I have to admit, I don't know much about the LWB as it's definitely not that over expanded, that's why my suggestions are probably going to be pretty vain. The LWB, in light of their relations with the Mollies, could expand to the Omegas, as in Omega-3 and 7. LWB fighters could go with piracy in these two systems, being bountiful due to the ridiculous amount of miners of the late. Sure, piracy is not their primary aim, but an agricultural revolution needs supplies to expand aswell. Occasionally, I don't see harm in assisting the RHA in their O-5 front either, seeing that the Corsair expansion means a drawback to the LWB too, and they are the closest to the Omega front lines.
Additionally, giving the LWB 1-2 more bases in 4.86 would be a good idea, although it's not mine to decide or consider, but seeing that they only have two bases in the whole game is pretty... disappointing.
Summary: LWB to the Omegas (3, 7, possibly 5) and give the poor guys another base.
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A faction of the above three might also want to note how disadvantageous the Bounty Hunter presence in Omega-15 is.
Discuss.
Dealing with the inactivity of Rheinland outlaws - Vrabcek - 03-21-2010
First of all thank you for starting a discussion about this topic....we all can see how the activity of the unlawfuls of rheinland ( except the hessians) is....
About Volksfront:
Sigma 13 is already in our ZoI...
I dont know whether the sigma 19 is a good choice...i dont see there much reasons to go there
But, the New hampshire idea sounds good...if we would able to organise something with the LNs that would propably increase the attractivity...
We can use the success of a fight there for the "propaganda" about that we are fighting the enemy of the volk of rheinland...Im just not sure whether we can get 4-5 people online to get there at the start....
Also it would be good if the RFP would be more active...as you already stated we cannot just fight the RM as the only enemy...
As far about the AU and LWB...the ideas sounds good... but i dont know much about their RP...
Dealing with the inactivity of Rheinland outlaws - Sturmwind - 03-21-2010
I think our primary aim in S-13 would be to stop the Military goods being exported towards the Taus when Rheinland needs them more. The Kanzleramt approves of such trades, so opposing this export would be a blow to them aswell, not to mention the weapons of aid we gain from such an activity. Give the weapons of the people back to the hands of the people.
Also, remember when the Sails introduced a claim for Nuremberg? We encountered that on our RMs, but a large portion of Hessians also witnessed it. I believe shooting down the Corsairs in S-13 and 19 (and keeping them away from Rheinland's northern side at that) would decrease the chance of such claims being introduced and God forbid, fulfilled.
Another reason to go to 19 is the Hawaii. It's pretty much a drug hole, a chief point of cardamine distribution. It's way off the RM's ZoI, but has an effect on Rheinland, especially if the cardi shipments become "looked over" by the Rheinland lawfuls. Thus, the prevention of cardamine distribution could be managed by the VF pilots.
Dealing with the inactivity of Rheinland outlaws - Wolfspirit - 03-21-2010
Agree with Vrabcek, Bundschuh already in Sigma 13. BU was there in the past without any problem and as I remember there is Bundschuh NPCs too so its all right. LWB members are sometimes in Omega systems. At least my DHC- patrols see them in Omega-7 system, between Freistadt and Stuttagrt gate. True we see them rarely.
I can add something with this problem as an outsider. As I saw the official faction members and see the tech use chart, they give everything to each other. They have same ZoI, same enemy (RM lawfuls in global), same ships and equipments. I dont see any difference between LWB and RHA example. Daumann try to be more kind with LWB as rumors suggest we (and some police/military office) agree their hostile actions against Synt Foods and we, the Dauman never put bounty on their head. We try to handle them more friendly, but we get the same in speech and in actions what we get from RHA example. They try to kill our fighters and ignore the bigger targets.
This is the secound. Seems like most of them are wnat just fight, dont act as a pirate or someone who really need money. They just ask something in the name of a mighty revolution, but when we ask what is it exactly (trying RP ing) we dont get real answers. Zero or almost zero background info about their faction. They just see "oh our enemy is the Rheinland lawfuls, lets shoot them somehow". This is my experience sorry. Time to time if we get a PvPwhore hesian or other unlawful who really dont folow the RP line and mix our RP with coward behavior, we give him a 1 vs 1 OORP PvP fight. Usually they are more quiet, because usually they lose, then we tell our RP in a private OOC discuss, but could be fine if we dont need to do this.
Maybe Im wrong but I dont really saw any difference LWB, AU, RHA VF) in speech and in behavior, not need to be surprised how some lose their membership? Please at least ask your members read over the rumors not just the short faction description in game. I posted all Rheinland rumors on my Daumann web site a year ago and now I posted all from vanilla game rumor. So you dont need to do much than read it. That could be fine a good 1st step, than your members understand the motivations of these factions. If the players see these are different, not just in name, and see how they really act different, then maybe more join. (I personally have a lot of nice idea for example to Bundschuh, it can be a real nice RP team, a lot of possibility is there.) Read what the other faction's common persons say about your faction, reading only your own faction's stuffs not enough. Here is the link. Use it.
Summary: expanding border is good and acceptable but need something more too, here is a possible key.
Dealing with the inactivity of Rheinland outlaws - Sturmwind - 03-21-2010
I agree with Wolfspirit regarding the fact that the RP between the factions has to be differentiated much more, a person who's not that involved with the outlaw RP indeed can't detect any notable differences, as they all represent a leftist revolutionary line of the different laborer classes.
The problem is, it's pretty much a vanilla failure at design, the developers placed four socialist factions into Rheinland with pretty much similar goals and methods, while more variety is to be found in the other houses, especially considering the Discovery additions and alterations.
Regardless, that's why I recommended the differentiation of Unioner RP from the others, regarding the focus on piracy and terror rather than poetically conducting a crusade for a greater good. If not, the net of cooperation could still be altered to this: The VF does the propaganda, the AU does the piracy, the RHA cover their backs from the lawfuls and the LWB eeeer... helps them?
Anyway, splitting up the similarity between the factions' RP would be good, but how?
Dealing with the inactivity of Rheinland outlaws - Blodo - 03-21-2010
The only one thing that can boost activity is ZoI extension. The three mentioned Rheinland unlawful factions will never be very popular among the mainstream indie crowd due to the lack of caps (OLOLOL), but allowing their ZoIs to overlap the Hessian one a bit more, as well as extending into the Omega, Texas and further into the Sigma systems will at least provide some variance between the various faction ZoIs. Bundies could probably expand into Sigma-13 a bit more to ensure that the Kusari - Rheinland pact doesn't come to full fruition. The LWB, being funded more and more by Hessians, could extend into the Omega systems further, while the Unioners could actually start attempting to invade Texas a bit more. Texas is notably lacking in unlawful bases, perhaps adding a small Unioner outpost into it from the Bering side might actually electrify the faction a bit more?
Dealing with the inactivity of Rheinland outlaws - Wolfspirit - 03-21-2010
Normally all they have their target, Hessians-Daumann, Kruger; Unioners-Republican; LWB-Synth Food; Bundschuh-RM and RFP. This is why not hessian base in Hamburg and no LWB in Frankfurth example, they are there or in close, where are their enemy installations. So maybe if Rheinland unlawfuls chose their right targets and dont take all Rheinland lawfuls to the red zone that can make more difference between them. Of course you can say lawful side do the same but it is not true of course. We try to act as competitors with Kruger and with ALG in the past, we dont show a nice unity or a big happy family picture. Maybe LWB hunt Synth Foods and all others who transport synth paste but let alone the miners example because they dont have any problem with each other, they arent competitors, and secretly rheinland police and military are on LWB side. Just an idea.
Dealing with the inactivity of Rheinland outlaws - Pinko - 03-21-2010
See, I do not really appreciate the idea to let the Unioners freely roam into Texas because, obviously, that's the only place where they will be active. Unless you do put a small outpost in Texas, which I really doubt that'd happen, there's also no real reason for us to be active in Texas. Pirating in Texas? There is an embargo. The only people we will stop are independent traders and Junkers. As far as I'm aware, my members do two things at once: spread propaganda and blow up ships that do not support our point of view, civilian or not. We also interdict diamond trading in all of it's forms and do like Police factions when they find smuggled goods: we force them to drop their diamonds and fine them. I also try to create some tensions between the Hessians and us once in a while, and I also appreciate to deal with unlawful factions from the 4 houses for trade agreements. That's pretty much all I have to say. :/
EDIT: Vanilla wise, Unioners and Hessians were unfriendly, and down right hostile when it came to diamonds. Today, it's the reason why they're allied.
Dealing with the inactivity of Rheinland outlaws - schlurbi - 03-21-2010
Don't forget to mention what happened the last Time we were in Texas. The Lady got blamed and raged at, though we had Reasons.
I'd like to play more on my Unioner, the only Thing is that I dislike to fly alone. Also, I am not long in the AU yet, I don't know much about it (what I actually like, because it fits into my Roleplay) so I don't know what I could do except pirating, and blowing up Ships.
Last Time I was on my Unioner I was surrounded by 5 Military ships, not a good Thing you like to see too.
Dealing with the inactivity of Rheinland outlaws - Sturmwind - 03-21-2010
Replying to your points about the Unioners, the reasons for the ZoI extension could be the following:
There might be an embargo, but navy transports are still moving useful toys into New Hampshire. Liberating a few of those, maybe even wandering into Yukon or whichever system connects Quebec and Texas for the exact reason to pirate the tools could be beneficial.
Disrupting the supplies of the Liberty Navy could also be advantageous because with a Navy victory, the Unioners in Bering would be regulated more heavily. I recall reading a rumor or news article regarding this subject, indicating that one of reasons of the Liberty Navy assault to the independent systems is because the Rheinland Military never gave a damn about Hudson and Bering's security.
That's the way I see it. The Navy want to come down hard on you, you hit back. Pirating stuff in Texas (such as supply vessels) could mean a worthy retaliation. You get raged and yelled at? Then don't do it spontaneously, make sure RP background precedes the increasing amount of Liberty incursions. It's not like they can do anything but banning the diamond trade or shooting back, both of which the Navy already did.
On the final note, constructing an LWB outpost into the Omegas and a Unioner base in Texas could be a right choice.