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+--- Thread: Guard Systems (/showthread.php?tid=38703)
Guard Systems - Linkus - 04-21-2010
----===Introduction===----
Right now we have a glut of useless, overdone and just plain silly systems. Oddly, they all tend to be guard systems.
Not all Guard systems are like this however and some are in the process of being changed.
In the end though, people do not like the state of things, nor do they like how factions can be as e-peen happy as they wish in systems, with no regard for the consequences or even the plausibility of it all. (Death Star being built in Londonderry etc).
----===Proposition===----
General Outline
I propose a completely new idea when it comes to the Guard systems.
We change them into unknown, undeveloped places of space.
Ripe space open for exploration and exploitation. Dead systems you might call them, but only initially.
Player factions sit in various places in Sirius but they all have their Guard system close to home.
I say we alter that slightly.
We introduce a new way of 'buying' your guard system.
You don't.
You want to control it?
Explore it. Expand into it.
Fight for it.
I propose a system where you have to 'buy' anything you want to put into the system.
You want to place say, 10 weapon platforms around a jumphole?
Go and buy them with some points.
You want to build an awesome station of doom and destruction?
Go and buy the parts for it with some points.
Right now we have a glut of useless, overdone and just plain silly systems. Oddly, they all tend to be guard systems.
Not all Guard systems are like this however and some are in the process of being changed.
In the end though, people do not like the state of things, nor do they like how factions can be as e-peen happy as they wish in systems, with no regard for the consequences or even the plausibility of it all. (Death Star being built in Londonderry etc).
----===Proposition===----
General Outline
I propose a completely new idea when it comes to the Guard systems.
We change them into unknown, undeveloped places of space.
Ripe space open for exploration and exploitation. Dead systems you might call them, but only initially.
Player factions sit in various places in Sirius but they all have their Guard system close to home.
I say we alter that slightly.
We introduce a new way of 'buying' your guard system.
You don't.
You want to control it?
Explore it. Expand into it.
Fight for it.
I propose a system where you have to 'buy' anything you want to put into the system.
You want to place say, 10 weapon platforms around a jumphole?
Go and buy them with some points.
You want to build an awesome station of doom and destruction?
Go and buy the parts for it with some points.
[color=#FFFFFF]Specific details
[color=#FFFFFF]Points
Currently we have the issue where factions have these impenetrable fortress' of epicness, yet are pathetic outside of this epic system. This simply doesn't make sense.
Points are a solution to this. You buy them with your credits. You spend them to build in these new virgin systems. You lose them if you lose an event or two etc.
It's simple.
A weapons platform, tough nut one say, costs 5 points.
A point costs 1 million credits.*
That platform essentially costs 5 million credits.
*The cost of a point here is just for example's sake.
Why the Points and not just credits you say?
Well it's simple. Points can only be used to build in these systems, or perhaps in other ways if people want to explore that another time.
Credits can be used for anything.
Organised events between factions, perhaps with an Admin or Moderator or just a sensible person popping their head in, can win them points or lose them points.
This doesn't mean the best PVP faction will do fantastic as many events can have nothing to do with PVP and may just be trading events for example.
Points cannot be transfered back to credits, the transaction only goes one way.
A rough guideline for points might be this:
- Bouy - 1 Point
- Weapons platform - 5 points
- Station Solar Panel - 10 points
- Station generic Module - 15 points
- Station Docking Module (small) - 50 points
- Station living habitat - 30 points
- Fighter patrol - 10 points
- Etc
There would be a limit on the number of points a faction can spend in a period of time.
Points are meant to represent the total cost of construction etc.
That includes manpower, credits, time etc.
You can't have the Bundchuh building Juneu shipyards overnight simply due to having credits, they need the manpower and time too, otherwise they would compromise their other endeavours (Like guarding home stations).
This means larger groups like the Liberty Navy could spend more points in a week than say, the Xeno's could.
A factions power would influence this variable.
[color=#FFFFFF]Systems
The systems involved in this would be Guard systems, plus or minus whatever ones people feel are appropriate.
How would this be any different than as it is now you say?
Well for one, factions have to pay for their expansion into the systems.
They don't pay the 500 million for total control anymore but infact have to build it up over time.
Factions cannot instantly control the system but must create their own dominance of the system by building in it, and again through events perhaps.
The systems involved would be virgin systems, untouched by anyone and open to whoever wishes to claim it.
The system layout would be done already, no spending points on moving stars or asteroid rings.
[color=#FFFFFF]----===Conclusion===----
Simply put, what do you think?
This proposal turns Guard systems into what they really ought to be, without the silly and senseless nonsense that currently infests a good few of them.
It gives factions something additional to strive for, to build up, to be proud of. Not just to go 'Oh that..yeh it's em..big' but to be able to be proud of what they have achieved.
Guard Systems - MB52 - 04-22-2010
An interesting thought.. but what about those factions who are heavily invested in the RP of their guard systems?
This suggestion would wipe that away...
What about doing this. but not in a guard system?
Guard Systems - kingvaillant - 04-22-2010
How do you propose to actually monitor all this? who would be in charge to make sure no faction cheats on their points?
The current system work this way:
Faction->System modder->Igiss->Testers->Igiss->Public release.
Now, if we look at your proposal, this means that the System modders and Igiss would have to monitor factions activities very closely to make sure none cheats or miscalculate their stuff. None of us (systems modders + Igiss) have the time for this.
Plus, adding another entity in the system would just make the whole process too heavy.
In fact, this sounds like EVE. I believe such concept may cause WAY too much competition between various factions. Bottom line, I think this proposal would be beneficial for factions RP but far too detrimental for the inter-faction relations (OOC). Let's face it, people don't like being the losers. The risks of loosing something may stir quite a lot of tension.
Now, imagine when a group actually loose an event. I can only foresee a lot of whining, and lovely messages exchanged between faction leaders.
And Again, do not use Londonderry or the GC guard system as examples to support your position about the current guard system mechanics. Those systems are mistakes that will NEVER be allowed again.
Guard Systems - Bobthemanofsteel - 04-22-2010
It sounds like a very awesome idea.
For an MMO.
I would honestly love to see this, but unless faction have to wait until the next release to get their new stations, the only other way is via updates.
I don't wanna have to update everytime some powertrader donated over 9000 million credits to some faction, who then uses them to buy points.
The points purchase itself would have to be controlled by Admins anyway.
It's a great idea, but I'm not sure it's really plausible.
Guard Systems - Lance_Uppercut - 04-22-2010
Great idea, but scale it back...
Only official factions can buy up to (I dunno, limit at 150 points worth, for example) of stuff in any system.
Only allow updates to happen every x months (2? 3?) and to be approved at least one month prior.
This goes on the notion that we have "regular" (at least more than what .85 saw) updates within the release. I'd like to see that if not just for updated "news" at the bar, anyway.
Guard Systems - Linkus - 04-22-2010
There are limits on the number of points a faction could spend per month/week/timeperiod.
No powertrader pumping out 900 million into a faction and them suddenly exploding with points.
There would be no room for cheating really, it would all be handled forum side. The money is transfered, the events are completed, whatever. The points are added onto a small list on the forums and the faction goes from there.
In reality it's a very simple system.
And infact, people are wanting there to be winners and losers in Discovery nowadays. Folks are pretty sick of everyone winning and no one losing. This is a direct reflection of factions, it's up to them to do with it what they will.
In terms of OOC hate, considering the sheer number of people who have characters in multiple factions, I doubt that is likely apart from more localised things.
Honestly, the only flaw in the idea is that factions will have to earn their guard system, instead of just flinging 500 million at the Admins.