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+--- Thread: Hyperspace Drives (/showthread.php?tid=38788)
Hyperspace Drives - Ironwatsas - 04-23-2010
After playing Homeworld again recently, I've come up with the radical yet awesome idea of implementing a system of hyperspace drives ala the .beam command, but with a few extra bits to promote and add an element of awesomeness to the mod. Essentially, this would be an FLhook powered system which both permits teleporting around, something quite useful, and promotes roleplay.
The theory behind it is this...
A 'hyperdrive' equipment item will be available. This item will be purchased at a high price (ala the cost of a battleship) from certain bases and factions (those which would logically possess hyperdrive technology). This will not be 'fair' in distribution due to the implausibility of many entities possessing or having the technical expertise to use it.
Other factions will have to acquire hyperdrives through player interactions or kill ships with unmounted hyperdrives in them. Though any faction should be able to use it if it can get a compatable ship.
The hypedrive can only be mounted on a large warship. A Carrier, Battleship, Cruiser, or certian large Gunboats (and even certian classes of these ships wouldn't be compatable).
HOWEVER
The hyperdrive is not ready to run out of the box. It requires fuel, specifically an exotic matter which is sold at no bases in Sirius, and can only be acquired through mining. This fuel will be found in small patches scattered across Sirius, often hidden in larger mining fields or in remote locations. Such fuel will have limited value on the open market (though a profit could be made selling to research stations), the real value will come from selling it to other players. It will also force factions who want to use hyperdrives en-masse to deploy mining ships to gather it.
Once enough fuel has been acquired (enough as to not leave enough cargo space for profitable powertrading using this system to be viable) the hyperdrive can be used. Though it should be viable for most ships to be able to make a two-way journey (individual fuel use would vary depending on the size of the ship)
The system will be activated by a simple flhook command, such as
/hyperjump New York 111.222.333
The number at the end being co-ordinates in the system. This requires memorization of set co-ordinates for bases or points of interest, or risk 'blind jumping' into planets or stars.
If all is well, the hyperdrive will activate. An animation will play (which will immobilize the ship and drain it's powerplant) and the ship will be teleported to the target co-ordinates.
UNLESS
There is a Gravity Well present in the system.
Some systems will have gravity wells by default (Omicron-91 with the Razgriz black hole, Omega-41, Omega-58, etc). For systems without those, however, players defending these systems will have access to portable gravity wells. Each house/major faction will have a gravity well generator ship of their own (or one easily acquirable) which, when not docked, will prevent any hyperspace travel into a system (a message will be given to a player intending to jump indicating "HSNAV has detected a Gravity Well" or something).
The Gravity well will be an entire ship of it's own. Likely without weapons or thrusters. However, it will have a secondary function, in that it acts like a giant cruise disruptor (preventing ships in range from cruising away). It will probably have gunboat level shields and armor, making it a strategic tool.
Finally, any ship in a Gravity well's range trying to hyperspace OUT of a system, will be prevented from jumping away (as well as any ship in the vicinity of a planet or star).
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Bugged that only capships can hyperspace? SOLUTION!
Carriers will have their own special ability, fighters nearby (within a relatively small range like 1km) will be able to /dock or nk to a carrier, using another FLhook command. the fighter(s) will type something like:
/dock targetname
The carrier captain will be given a message /player X wants to dock Y/N and will be given the option to cancel or allow docking. However, this will only work with carriers or (possibly) battleships, with each shipclass being given a limited number of ships it can carry (if this can be scripted). Carriers would be able to carry dozens of fighters, while battleships and cruisers would only be able to carry a few (if any, depending on class). Transports will not be able to /dock (but freighters will) to prevent powertrading.
Assuming the carrier is already set to jump, any ships inside the /dock radius will jump with the carrier. If a ship leaves the radius, it will not be taken along. Ships that do not /dock will also not be taken along, to prevent unintended hitchhikers
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Presumably, the basics of this can be used by some of the same mechanisms used by the .beam command and the mining mod. Understanding the basic principals (if not actual scripting) that are already in use on the server.
The sheer costs in credits involved, complex set of events required to make a hyperdrive, rarity of supply limited shiptypes that can jump, dependence of player interaction, and available mitigation systems SHOULD balance it out and prevent most abusive players from getting a hold of one. But it would have practical benefits to factions like the Order or those with large ZoI, and for faction and player interaction and economics in dealing with moving around all of the various stuff.
It'd also add in a strategic perspective with planning of Gravity well deployment, plotting hyperspace co-ordinates, fuel stockpiling, etc.
All in all, something quite fun to <strike>implement right away</strike> consider.
Hyperspace Drives - farmerman - 04-23-2010
The fuel should also decrease while in your hold like MOX does. Otherwise, I like the idea! It has enough balances to make it feasible though uncommon.
Also, maybe have these gravity ships also have a secondary use similar to the repair ship but on a lesser scale. That would make them extra nice in a group situation.
Hyperspace Drives - Markus_Janus - 04-23-2010
My first question would be which faction are reasonably considered to have jump drives?
Hyperspace Drives - Osilon - 04-23-2010
I like this idea, but it sounds like a whole lotta FLHook scripting. Plus, theres only a few actual 'carriers' such as the Geb and the Liberty carrier. But, i can see this being implimented, maybe having the hyperdrive replace the shield or armor, to keep it balanced. You don't want a liberty cruiser jumping right into the middle of a rheinland incursion with 5-6 bombers, it would make things a bit unfair...'
Oh, and you need to actually limit the range. Maybe 2-3 systems away.
As for who has them, Nomad factions, Order, and liberty navy jump to mind.
Hyperspace Drives - Ironwatsas - 04-23-2010
Quote:The fuel should also decrease while in your hold like MOX does. Otherwise, I like the idea! It has enough balances to make it feasible though uncommon.
Possible, but that might make it 'too' infeasible. The fuel would be available in a select few (remote and dangerous) areas through mining only. Plus, having to cart it all around or stockpile it might degenerate it to the point where it's not viable. Though it'd certainly be a solution if the devs feel that way.
Quote:Also, maybe have these gravity ships also have a secondary use similar to the repair ship but on a lesser scale. That would make them extra nice in a group situation.
Sure, they'd be able to pass out bots/bats, but there isn't a lot of RP precedent for making them that way. But it would encourage their use somewhat more, so it's definately possible.
Quote:My first question would be which faction are reasonably considered to have jump drives?
Probably Nomads and the Order, and someone in Gallia, and maybe the BHG core. Any 'high tech' factions with reasonable precedent for owning them, but factions that aren't too 'open' as to flood the market with them. They should be acquirable with difficulty (e.g. an arms dealer would need to be friendly with the order, buy several, sell them at a profit to factions in need.) or through destruction of ships carrying them.
Quote:I like this idea, but it sounds like a whole lotta FLHook scripting. Plus, theres only a few actual 'carriers' such as the Geb and the Liberty carrier. But, i can see this being implimented, maybe having the hyperdrive replace the shield or armor, to keep it balanced. You don't want a liberty cruiser jumping right into the middle of a rheinland incursion with 5-6 bombers, it would make things a bit unfair...'
Oh, and you need to actually limit the range. Maybe 2-3 systems away.
As for who has them, Nomad factions, Order, and liberty navy jump to mind.
Replacing the shield? No, that'd be a bit much. Replacing the armor... possible, but the logistics of simply GETTING a hyperdrive and providing fuel for it should be enough to negate it's abuse.
As well, to be able to jump, you need the EXACT coordinates within a system, or just randomly jump and hope you don't appear inside Houston. So a bit of planning is nessescary to make it truely effective. As well, ships that hyperspace in will have their powerplants (and possibly shields) depleted like the cruise engine mod, and it'd take a few seconds to fully translate into and out of hyperspace (like in homeworld) making the ship vulnerable to attack.
As for range... yeah. It SHOULD have a limit, but limiting it too much negates it's strategic usefulness. One idea is to have it consume X amount of fuel proportional to the distance (and possibly size) of the ship, making management of that important in order to jump a mixed fleet of ships (or plan a two-way jump).
If that's too hard to script though, a simple system limit is viable.
Hyperspace Drives - 11of10 - 04-23-2010
Could this be a possible option for the largest of transport ships to mount, in exchange for a lost thruster perhaps?
Also, about the interdictor ship... it's interdiction field should be of similar range to the hyperjump field... other than that, someone might just park it 50K up, and prevent any work in the system, except through the classical means of travel.
Also, make Hyperdrive cost 1.3 Billion, and resale value 100 million, if possible
Hyperspace Drives - Ironwatsas - 04-23-2010
Quote:Could this be a possible option for the largest of transport ships to mount, in exchange for a lost thruster perhaps?
Probably not. That'd be a powertrader's heaven come to earth. The loss of a thruster wouldn't really mitigate it. The only thing that would on a transport is it sapping up like 90% of the cargo space, so it wouldn't serve a practical purpose.
The only exception is the Barge, due to it's inability to maneuver between systems. But that'd have the same problem as the above. But given the rarity of the barge and cost of fuel, even the massive profits a load of ore would bring in would only JUST pay for the fuel cost of jumping the thing.
Quote:Also, about the interdictor ship... it's interdiction field should be of similar range to the hyperjump field... other than that, someone might just park it 50K up, and prevent any work in the system, except through the classical means of travel.
If it can be scripted, sure. That is a valid problem. However, a fleet could just jump to a jumphole in a neighboring system and use that. Which is kind of the point of a gravwell. Plus, if a gravwell is 50k or so away from a target fleet, it can't prevent them from jumping OUT of a system or disrupt cruise or serve as anything aside from dead weight.
The reason I suggest making it impossible to jump INTO a whole system with a gravwell near is the fact that I don't know how difficult it would be for detection of it's radius from whole systems away. And the fact that a fleet would still be able to jump in on top of someone if the gravwell or right next to it's radius. Thus would make a gravity well ineffective on a strategic level.
The reason it dosen't affect jumping OUT of a whole system is that big, expensive capships should have a viable retreat mechanism. If they can escape the range of a gravity well or destroy it then they'll be able to power up their hyperdrive and make a clean getaway. this is one of the major uses of a hyperdrive.
Quote:Also, make Hyperdrive cost 1.3 Billion, and resale value 100 million, if possible
Exact costs factor in sellpoints, faction use, cumulative fuel costs, etc. Needless to say, it's going to be prohibitively expensive. So only factions or VERY well connected indies will be able to affoard one.
Hyperspace Drives - daimonic - 04-23-2010
I like how this would provide more real uses for those large ships (carriers, BS), as well as encouraging more strategic thinking and planning when it comes to raids/assaults.
I do think planets should have some defenses (either artificial or inherent) against a fleet jumping too close to it though, just to prevent a fleet appearing suddenly and bombing a planet. Some planets have a BS nearby which would naturally provide some deterrent, some don't. There are a couple of possibilities there:
1. Planetary defenses including an artificial gravity well with a limited range (I imagine only populated planets would have this)
2. The gravity of the planet itself making it too risky to jump too close to it (would work for populated or unpopulated planets)
Good thinking there.
Hyperspace Drives - Ironwatsas - 04-23-2010
Ideally, if it can be scripted, planets, stars, etc, would create large gravity wells preventing jumps into and out of their radii.
If not however, I don't see it as that big a deal. A battleship can just cruise up to a planet as it is and camp it if no players or NPCs around. Only differance with this is he just spent ten million credits or so worth of fuel to jump in and arrived without shields or energy*, or better yet, accidently jump inside the planet:P
(*if it can be scripted that shields are reset when jumping)
Usually, NPCs and Players parked nearby (and common sense on any legit RPers) would be sufficient to deter such action. Though I'd still be happy to see planetary/stellar gravity affect hyperspace for added RP effect.
Hyperspace Drives - Osilon - 04-23-2010
I can see this combined with a new class of fighter, a scout of sorts, two class 10 slots and a cloaking device, which could be used to scout out the hyperdrive co-ords, before bringing in the big guns...
it would be useful for asteroid-prone systems.
I'd love this to be implimented, with a sort of mini-black hole effect popping up in space, the enemies going WHAT THE F- before being struck down by a carrier and numerous fighter wings.