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+--- Thread: Fleet support again fighters idea (/showthread.php?tid=39370)
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Fleet support again fighters idea - CommanderX - 05-03-2010
I not know where I could put my idea about this game, so I will put it ihere, if it is wrong place, tell me and I will move it to place I should.
First of all, I will tell my experience from PvP fights on server.
1 pirate VHF meet patroling gunboat, he escape, gunboat not can catch him.
2 pirate VHF meet patroling gunboat, they can escape or fight ( it is fair fight on both sides, it base on pilot skills )
3 pirate VHF meet patroling gunboat, if they jump on gunboat, he is down.
3 pirate VHF meet cruizer, cruizer will lose.
Now for example fleet battles.
2 battleships, 2 assault cruizers, 2 cruizers,2 gunboats ( navy ), meet 6 VHF and 2 bombers ( pirates )
fight begin
End of this fight is easy, 2 gunboats down, 2 cruizers down, 2 assault cruizers down, 2 battleship down, losses on pirate side base on pilot skills.
Putting anti fighter set up will not help much again so huge number of fighters and bombers because, fighters and bomber can focus fire on capital ship easy and they can easy run when they shield is down, capital ships not can cover each other and not can focus attack on 1 target, so they go down 1 by 1.
This is what make fleets useless.
My idea is to make a way for fleet to support each other better, I mean, sending nanos and shields will not help for long since all fighters avoid taking hull damage easy.
My idea is that every capital ship should have option like ( shield transfer ),
It should be small button in every capital ship.
It should work for example.
You have battleship, shield transfer range is 1.5 k, so you have cruizer who is under attack of 6 fighters and 2 bombers, ( cruizer will go down in no time ), so you press shield transver, as long as it is on, battleship not can shot and not can move, ( after 10 secounds 50% of battleship shield will go down and cruizer shield will increse ), thanks this Capital ships would support each other insted of watching how his shots miss and how fighters and bombers drain down ships from fleet 1 by 1.
For example, battleship have 450.000 shield, per secound 22.500 shield will be transvered to choised capital ship as long as he is in range of 1.5k.
Each transver should take 10 secounds and shut down automaticly after this.
I m afraid many of you will tell that this idea will make capital ships to good, but fleets just not can support each other again fighters and bombers so my idea is to make fleet able to help each other,
in fleet vs fleet battle shield transver is useless because it is better to focus shots on enemy ships, but in fight again fighters and bombers it would be only way to help others since you not can hit so fast and small target attacking your comrade.
Fleet support again fighters idea - Blaze - 05-03-2010
Sounds good but I dont think it is possible.
Fleet support again fighters idea - CzeReptile - 05-03-2010
You will get only one answer around here.
Do not fly caps.
I wonder why they are there then... I personally have 6 ships or gunboat and above class, and they are indeed useless. Simply said, mod favors smalls, no idea why.
Oh I know!
NO matter how old you are, with little patience you can buy anything. Thats why?
Fleet support again fighters idea - jxie93 - 05-03-2010
I bet you got this idea from Sins of a Solar Empire support cruisers concept, specialised cruisers or capital ships that can improve the survivability of the fleet and barely have defences on their own.
It's neat idea, but not possible without the source code.
Fleet support again fighters idea - peter123 - 05-03-2010
No. Caps have to have wingmens in vhfs who will shoot down bombers and fighters. caps aren't made to fly alone.
Fleet support again fighters idea - jimmy Patterson - 05-03-2010
if capitol ships could be done properly(source code needed sadly)they would have all sorts of main guns defence guns and AA guns somew (or possably all like in say star trek)would beable to transfer power/sheilds/whatever but again source code is needed so in this games state as much as i hate it caps are sadly nothing but targets but i cant fly anything else cuz its to fast paced so im screwed either way
Fleet support again fighters idea - mjolnir - 05-03-2010
' Wrote:2 battleships, 2 assault cruizers, 2 cruizers,2 gunboats ( navy ), meet 6 VHF and 2 bombers ( pirates )
fight begin
End of this fight is easy, 2 gunboats down, 2 cruizers down, 2 assault cruizers down, 2 battleship down, losses on pirate side base on pilot skills.
It depends a lot on the loadout. If the BS and cruisers had solaris, gunboats would stay close to them and fire missiles (targetting one bomber each), the caps will easily win. If on the other hand they have mosty anti-cap, guns they will loose yes.
We have 4.86 changes comming which will make loadouts and guns slightly different so it will change to something between.
We'll see how that goes.
Fleet support again fighters idea - CommanderX - 06-27-2010
Thank you all, it looks like I m not alown, and I see that many thinks like me that mod favore small ships, that everyone can buy capital ships ( this is why it is nothink special ), and that capital ships are just target.
Seems that my idea about shield transfer is impossible to give in freelancer discovery.
There must be other way to make fleets less useless again fighters/bombers.
First of all, lets think what is the problem, why capitals are just targets.
First of all, fighters/bombers can use 90 - 200 speed and are small, so hard to hit, it alow tham to escape easy from capital ship, on other hand, capital ship speed is 80 - 150, battleship is 90, so if using thuster speed
( 350 ) fail, fighters/bombers can slowly beat capital ship.
Secound, it is cooperation,
fleet can team up to beat other fleet, for example 4 gunboats on 1 battleship, 2 cruizers on 1 battleship, all capital ships on 1 target, so in fleet vs fleet fights, cooperation is easy.
But in fleet vs fighters/bombers focusing fire on one target is very hard, targeted fighter/bomber can dodge giving others chance to attack, and targeting all fighters/bomber in range will just take out shield, but they will escape to avoid hull damage, and come back after it recover to 20% and above.
Fighters/bombers can pick up easter target and gang up on him, even under fire of other cap. it will not slow tham down.
So the more fighters/bombers and the bigger fleet, the worse for fleet since fleet not can use numbers and fighters/bombers can.
Now lets think about all class individualy.
Battleship can hit hard other battleship, and beat cruizer from close range, but gunboat ( I use gunboat ) can have fun run 1k range from battleship avoiding his attack ( gunboats are weak in attack so they not can do much as well ),
But fighters/bombers can run around confusing battleship, ofcourse, if battleship have solaris guns, it can shot to fighters taking they shield or even damage tham if they try to attack, but it have 1000 range, bombers can hit with cannon 1.5k range, and it is very hard to support other cap with solaris or guns since battleship have 90 speed.
There are also flak cannon, but almost no one use tham, they just take to much energy, and they can hit friendly fighter/bomber, and they are hard to use.
Cruizers can give gunboats hard time, 1 cruizer not can beat 2 skilled gunboats, but is still efective in fleet battles, again battleships, they must stay in high range.
Again fighters and bombers, well, they have better shield than gunboats so they can fight off fighters better than gunboats ( if they have alot solaris guns ), with normal guns they can fight off fighters attacking tham, but they are unable to cover other capitals.
Bombers can still beat cruizers easy if they gang up on 1 target, and solaris have 800 range, so they are useless if bombers keep save distance.
Now gunboats, gunboats are how to say it, capital ships destined to fight off fighters and bombers, I mean, they have 1400 speed guns, high agility, strong shield, and they missiles are great to take out shield from fighters and bombers, still.
1 fighters/bombers escape from gunboat, 2 will have fair fight, 3 will tear up gunboat,
Even if gunboats are agile enogh to get on fighter/bomber tail sometime, and they can cover other cap. from 700 distance, and they have fast guns and hard shield to protect thamself, they still fail.
For example, 1 gunboat vs 1 bomber, gunboat win realy easy, 2 bombers vs gunboat will give him very hard fight ( if gunboat use 150 speed and agility, they force bombers to go close to use SANC and guns, so they can shot to bombers taking down they shield and hull ), skilled gunboat can beat 2 bombers if they are not agile enogh to dodge they shots, but if 2 bombers are agile like fighters, or if there are 3 bombers, they can take out gunboats 1 by 1.
Many fleets think gunboats can cover tham from bombers, it is true sometime, but, if bomber aim 1 cap. gunboat get on his back and shot, he can take down his shield or even make little hull damage, but it wont stop bomber from using SANC, after this bomber just dodge, and attack again, even if gunboat and fighter can damage bomber, they just not can stop bomber from using SANC, so they are not much of support.
Well, this is end of my analizes.
Fleet vs Fleet battles are fine.
Just Fleet vs fighter/bomber need change.
If someone of you have any idea what should change in freelancer discovery, to change capital ships from target for fighters/bombers into somethink usefull.
If someone know what should change to make fleet cooperate better again fighters/bombers so that 10 fighters/bombers would be unable to destroy 10 capital ships easy without loses.
Please reply here.
No offence for all what not use capital ships, it is just that once you team up you can tear up any cap. and since capital ships users have lower speed, they should at last be able to fight back.
Fleet support again fighters idea - aerelm - 06-27-2010
Your points are valid, the only problem is... They are valid considering how everyone on the Server do it, Not how it should be Done.
Although I know this is a really idealistic scenario, but, I have to say your main mistake is the fact you are not Considering Escorts! Thats how thing should work, 10 Fighters escorting 1 Battleship, so in case of Fleet battle, the Battleship shouldn't even bother thinking about the small Ships, and will charge the Capitals of the other side, and the Fighter escorts will keep the 4 Bombers of the other side busy while the BS does his Job.
What we do on Server, is 3 Legates, a Praetorian, a Titan and a Correo (!) Camp Malta, and expect to survive the Outcast Inferno Sabre spam! If one of the Capitals would stay and rest switch to Fighters and/or Bombers, the whole Fleet would've lasted much, much longer!
Fleet support again fighters idea - Cosmos - 06-27-2010
get a fighter.