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+--- Thread: Random idea for "civilian" "capital" ships. (/showthread.php?tid=39772)
Random idea for "civilian" "capital" ships. - Thexare - 05-10-2010
This thread will be watched. Flames will be seen, mocked, and then removed.
So, I was thinking about 4.84's Talarca Cruiser the other day.
Odd thing to think about, but it's not like anything worth thinking about happens in this town.
And I had an idea. Logically, civilian factions would still have use for a ship with some heavier firepower. The thought of a civilian warship seems odd to most of you, but they seem far more suited to long-range trips than fighters and bombers; they can hold more supplies, hold more fuel, and hold more comfortable living quarters. And, should they come under attack, they can fight back decently. So, they could be used for Ageira lane patrol, ridiculously well-guarded couriers, secure deep space exploration/recon/research vessel, or just a civilian ship built to fit in a loophole regarding weapon licenses.
So, stats and design. That's always the fun part, isn't it? Heavy gunship or light cruiser size, Transport shields, armor, and guns (a lot of guns). Can use fighter turrets. Maybe a specialized model could get a battery of fighter torpedo mounts at the front? Eh, too similar to a forward gun, and we all know those are bad.
In combat, I'd aim for a well-armed light transport that can vaporize pirate gunships and transports, but would suffer a severe weakness to fighters and bombers due to its complete lack of missiles and low-quality shield (Transport, remember). Keeping people from using it as a primary transport would be its relatively deficient cargo hold - 1500-2500, essentially just enough that the casual pirate would think it's a normal transport until it was too late.
The emphasis would be on firepower here. If an enemy survived the initial barrage, retaliation would be a very bad thing; two capable fighters could take it out, and it wouldn't be nearly mobile enough to keep up.
If the turret rotation speed can be set on a hardpoint-specific basis rather than gun-specific (I don't know jack about FL modding), one could further emphasise this fighter weakness by making most of the turrets turn slowly.
Okay. That's my idea. TL;DR version: A civilian "cruiser" that's really more Gunboat/ConTrans level, which could work as a combat ship (comparatively gimped against light craft though), deep space exploration/scout ship (non-Zoner Corvo or heavier Spatial for examples), or pirate-hunting Not-Actually-Merchant ship.
Random idea for "civilian" "capital" ships. - tansytansey - 05-10-2010
Calling it a "Civilian" Crusier is a bad idea. People will instantly start drawing comparisons with real life, you watch. There will be one saying "that's like a civilian driving a tank down the road, lol!"
Call it a generic Cruiser instead. Manufactured by someone, sold on the open market.
But speaking in a more logical manner; it's far more expensive for corporations to manufacture a Crusier than say, a bomber or a fighter. Plus a Cruiser is less effective.
Still, I think there is a place in-game for a few Generic Cruisers, mostly roleplay oriented. I can't see them being abused since most would require roleplay to get one any way, since most IDs either have access to a cruiser, or aren't allowed to fly them due to ID restrictions (sometimes both, like the LR/Mollys).
Random idea for "civilian" "capital" ships. - Thexare - 05-10-2010
' Wrote:Calling it a "Civilian" Crusier is a bad idea. People will instantly start drawing comparisons with real life, you watch. There will be one saying "that's like a civilian driving a tank down the road, lol!"Unfortunately the tech chart doesn't have a "Generic" category.
Call it a generic Cruiser instead. Manufactured by someone, sold on the open market.
Quote:But speaking in a more logical manner; it's far more expensive for corporations to manufacture a Crusier than say, a bomber or a fighter. Plus a Cruiser is less effective.Maybe, but how many pirates lately have you been seeing in gunships and transports? Also note that calling it a cruiser is inaccurate too; admittedly it doesn't quite fit in *any* category, but by my estimate it'd be somewhere around heavy gunship grade. Anyway, the idea is that with things as they are now, wealthier corporations - particularly Ageira due to its long-running Hacker troubles - would consider investing in heavier ships to fight off those gunships and transports, particularly now when the military is occupied with wars and can't reliably help with those pirates.
(edit: note I haven't been robbed in a long time.)
Alternately, one could argue that they're only built as a special order and that they charge more than enough for each one to make it worthwhile. Think Yacht in this regard; no, there's not much call for mass-produced luxury craft of that size and expense, but the amount these shipyards charge for each one when they do build and sell one more than compensates.
Quote:Still, I think there is a place in-game for a few Generic Cruisers, mostly roleplay oriented. I can't see them being abused since most would require roleplay to get one any way, since most IDs either have access to a cruiser, or aren't allowed to fly them due to ID restrictions (sometimes both, like the LR/Mollys).Also not quite a cruiser for this reason; I was aiming toward avoiding abuse by keeping the power level around what's already available to the same IDs for less money. Gunships are better against fighters and, possibly, against other gunships than this would be (the latter mostly because of the better shield). This would have the advantage mostly when it gets the first volley and against any big targets; if I've figured this right, it should be pretty crappy against fighters, whereas a real cruiser would be essentially invincible as far as (most) fighters are concerned and gunships would take quite a bit of time to lose their shield.
Random idea for "civilian" "capital" ships. - Prysin - 05-10-2010
this could be doable, if we say the whole construction was paid for by a found established by late transport and escort captains families. This would, over time, generate ALOT of money, more then enough to build these cruiser class vessels.
About your idea:
This sound like a salvager-corvo merge.
Light enough to be a transport, big enough bit to rip a gunboat or scare off a hostile transport, yet almost hopeless against a pair of fighters.
The shield, be it transport or gunboat, would need to be low, yet the powercore, could be around 950k to prevent a transport with LM's (this again is BAD).
On the other hand, 950k would be enought to fire a Liberty Cruiser missile, a couple of solarises or some razors, yet not be able to really spam them all.
The armour, if we compare this to the salvager conscept, should be thick and durable, but in return, the ship would be larger then "needed"
Low cargo is just brilliant, currently the Democritus luxury yatch is a potent combat transport due to its ability to mount a gunboat pulse and 4 transport cerbs, yet having 2500 cargo and alot of armour, in the democritus's case, the price lets it down, so if we add the conscept of this ship too, we get high priced powerhouse, with limited capabilities.
All in all, id like to see this, if too powerful, it wouldn't take use much time to greatly nerf it untill its balanced out. Not giving it a CD makes it useless for piracy (well, almost).
Random idea for "civilian" "capital" ships. - Exsiled_one - 05-10-2010
Commercial shipyard producing a "generic" capital ship line like the T cruiser before is an idea I would support.
Why wouldn't lawful factions acquire one, provided their leaderships agree, and why wouldn't they be equipped for certain things that the current cruisers aren't.
I fail to see them produced for the black market though, as at the very moment any corporation in sirius announces that they're making capital vessels of war, they would be subjected to many investigations by the governments because they're the first ones that don't want that ship in enemy's hands.
Random idea for "civilian" "capital" ships. - tansytansey - 05-10-2010
' Wrote:if I've figured this right, it should be pretty crappy against fighters, whereas a real cruiser would be essentially invincible as far as (most) fighters are concerned and gunships would take quite a bit of time to lose their shield.Cruisers are far from invincible to fighters. Only real difference between a bomber and a fighter is it takes longer to kill a big ship in a fighter. Cruisers are also pretty vulnerable to Gunboats, skill levels permitting of course. One gunboat, easy for a Cruiser. Two? Cruiser's usually dead.
I can't really see a generic civilian cruiser being deployed for defensive purposes... they're defending their property, not starting a war. I don't think the local military would appreciate it either.
I can see a Cruiser version of the Luxury Yacht, but not a warship.
Random idea for "civilian" "capital" ships. - Linkus - 05-10-2010
Call it a Frigate.
It's not a gunboat, it's not a cruiser, it's a mix.
Just like a Battlecruiser.
Maybe even call it a Light Cruiser, whatever really.
In any case, classify it as a Cruiser class vessel (Like Battlecruisers) and use SRPs.
That sorts out the "They won't have enough monies or power" thing, since only those with the money and power (and some rp clout) can get them. So, it all makes sense and there's no spammage of them.
In all, Yay.
In detail: SRP.
Random idea for "civilian" "capital" ships. - Thexare - 05-10-2010
' Wrote:Cruisers are far from invincible to fighters. Only real difference between a bomber and a fighter is it takes longer to kill a big ship in a fighter. Cruisers are also pretty vulnerable to Gunboats, skill levels permitting of course. One gunboat, easy for a Cruiser. Two? Cruiser's usually dead.Really? And that's without Infernos and Tizonas being brought into it?
I figured the shield regen would outdo what a fighter or two could do, at least in a reasonable time.
Although a few of you seem to be bringing Cruiser equipment into it and I was just suggesting a lot of transport turrets and, to compensate, only a transport shield. Hell, you could base the design on existing transports and say it's just a heavily remodelled Border Worlds Transport/Mammoth/Train/whatever.
A "real" civilian cruiser for SRP use would be okay, but that's not what my suggestion started as. Sorry if that was unclear, I typed the original post at 4 AM. :P
Random idea for "civilian" "capital" ships. - tansytansey - 05-11-2010
' Wrote:Really? And that's without Infernos and Tizonas being brought into it?
I figured the shield regen would outdo what a fighter or two could do, at least in a reasonable time.
We've killed a Battlecruiser armed with Flak with three fighters before, two Eagles and a Switchblade. With the Red Barons we used to kill Legates with nothing but fighters, usually around five or so. Fighters are the best ship class in the game, since that's what it was built for.
Quote:Although a few of you seem to be bringing Cruiser equipment into it and I was just suggesting a lot of transport turrets and, to compensate, only a transport shield.You mean... exactly like a Liner? Cruiser sized, transport turrets and shield.
Hum. Borderworld Liner... that would be sexy.
Random idea for "civilian" "capital" ships. - ErikssonJeny - 05-11-2010
I think that the motto of the company would be: "Exploring, researching, transporting, defending...with style!" If not awesome definitely neat!