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+--- Thread: The first building blocks of an indie pirate collective (/showthread.php?tid=46633)
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The first building blocks of an indie pirate collective - Tomtomrawr - 09-10-2010
Summary: Loose pirate collective. Unique with a diplomacy on an individual basis (see examples in green). Possible lack of ranks.
With Malenka leaving and abandoning his project (The Romano Family), that gave me the final nudge I needed to decide to put time into starting a true independent pirate faction. I have no sort of write-up for it so far but I'll get one when all of the information is gathered, picked over and finalised.
The current idea for a sort of history and description is a loose collective of non-affiliated pirates who decided a union would be more profitable and safer in their business. The level of assistance they give each other varies on how much it will benefit them, so this reflects how weak the structure of this collective really is.
Now what I decided will make this collective unique (the word "faction" sounds too solid, when this is a very weak union of pirates for their individual benefits, so I will use the word "collective" or any better words) is the diplomacy, which will work on an individual basis. There is no set diplomacy for the collective, except for the obvious things (hostile to lawfuls, corporations, etc). I'm going to use my indie pirate, Roger Claymore, and an imaginary indie pirate, Hans Snooker, for an example of how this works.
Now Roger Claymore has currently annoyed the Red Hessians and Junkers, so they hate him (the Neo-Vikings, who are Hessians, he is quite good with). Let's say that Hans Snooker has annoyed the Corsairs and Blood Dragons, so they hate him.
So Hans gets into a fight with some Corsairs and asks Roger for help. Roger could help, but then how would it benefit him? Hans would like him better, but then the Corsairs would hate him, so deny him docking rights on their stations and attack him when they saw him. So he would decide to leave Hans to deal with it himself.
Could be the other way around. The Junkers want payback against Roger and send several ships after him. Hans could see helping Roger as a way of getting closer to him, but then the Junkers would deny him docking rights and hunt him down. So he could leave Roger.
I believe, as well as showing this collective as a unique group, would also offer a sense of realism. With a group with as weak connections as this, members aren't going to throw themselves out of their way very far to help possibly and probable competition.
This diplomacy could reflect in the ship line and weapon choices. Roger Claymore has a Barghest from the Liberty Rogues for example, because he was once a Rogue (although I never actually use it). And if he got friendly with any other pirate organizations he could request ships and equipment from them.
Hans could be on good terms with the, let's say Unioners. So he could request an Arbeiter with Unioner equipment to possibly give him an upper edge.
Currently undecided is the ranking structure. No ranks, two or three, or a boat-load? I would probably go with no ranks, seeing as it isn't really a faction.
If you read all of that, then I thank you. If you read the summary, which is very brief, and you want to post a comment then I would suggest you read the whole thing.
Comments and ideas are appreciated and encouraged. It doesn't matter if they're good or bad, if they're good then I'm going in the right direction with some things and if they're bad then suggestions can be given on what to be changed.
Thank you.
The first building blocks of an indie pirate collective - Primitive - 09-10-2010
If Hans and Roger operate together in let's say Liberty, and Rogues decide to attack Hans (as Roger is friendly with them) and of course Roger stays out of it, what benefit does Hans have from Roger ?
Roger is friendly with neovikings - hessians and corsairs
If Roger is in middle of their fight and one side asks him to join them refusing might be...unpleasant. ( Or the politic behind it it's not to get involved ?)
But if hessians see you docking on corsair bases they might think of you as traitor. Same thing with mollys who are "owners of molly/rogue" tech when they see you friendly with corsairs. (But this is more on the chars personal level, so maybe this is something not included in my comment in a way)
I like the idea thou, but I'm not sure it can evolve more then skype group going together on raids. But I'll wait for more input added.
The first building blocks of an indie pirate collective - Tomtomrawr - 09-10-2010
' Wrote:If Hans and Roger operate together in let's say Liberty, and Rogues decide to attack Hans (as Roger is friendly with them) and of course Roger stays out of it, what benefit does Hans have from Roger ?A good question. Roger would of course still help Hans against lawfuls and traders and miners who refuse to pay his demands. And it is more likely to have a combat encounter with another lawful than other pirate groups (in the Houses and policed systems like Tau-23 anyway). So they do benefit from being in contact with each other and pirating together or close together sometimes, so I believe it would still be worth being a part of.
Quote:Roger is friendly with neovikings - hessians and corsairsNot getting involved on either side in that case would be the best option to use. But it is of course the option of the pirate. If Roger decides to screw over the Neo-Vikings and help the Corsairs, then all of the Hessians will hate him and that's his problem.
If Roger is in middle of their fight and one side asks him to join them refusing might be...unpleasant. ( Or the politic behind it it's not to get involved ?)
Quote:But if hessians see you docking on corsair bases they might think of you as traitor. Same thing with mollys who are "owners of molly/rogue" tech when they see you friendly with corsairs. (But this is more on the chars personal level, so maybe this is something not included in my comment in a way)A problem with the relations there, yes. But if the faction seeing you dock on a base owned by a hostile faction to them don't like it and decide to hate you, then there isn't really anything that can be done to avoid it. The safest bet would be to use Zoner bases as much as possible.
Quote:I like the idea thou, but I'm not sure it can evolve more then skype group going together on raids. But I'll wait for more input added.I'm having that same thought. I guess we'll wait and see. That may be all it is, but it could evolve into something stronger. But I doubt it, and I believe it'll just remain as a loose collective.
The first building blocks of an indie pirate collective - hribek - 09-10-2010
There will be situations when organized crime, such as this company of thieves, will have an advantage merely because they communicate with eachother. It might give them an edge over their source of entertainment and money which lacks any structure. The piracy levels in Discovery today are far below unbearable, even though the forum complaints tend to make it look otherwise.
The first building blocks of an indie pirate collective - Tomtomrawr - 09-10-2010
' Wrote:There will be situations when organized crime, such as this company of thieves, will have an advantage merely because they communicate with eachother. It might give them an edge over their source of entertainment and money which lacks any structure. The piracy levels in Discovery today are far below unbearable, unlike some might suggest.The problem I see is that more pirates are working together, and the traders and miners just aren't. They want as much money as possible so don't work in groups which split profits. This idea I see as a way of exploiting this weakness, as you suggested we would have an advantage.
And so many people wouldn't complain if they just formed protective groups, hired escorts or just paid the tax. In my experience most pirates who can speak more English than "engaging" make fair demands, especially when it comes to miners (who are the ones my pirate target). I ask for four millions from Hegemons for an entire day. In that time they can make hundreds of millions. But plenty complain it is unfair.
The first building blocks of an indie pirate collective - hribek - 09-10-2010
I totally agree with that.
Wait.
Aren't we in the same skype group already? :laugh:
The first building blocks of an indie pirate collective - Tomtomrawr - 09-10-2010
' Wrote:Aren't we in the same skype group already? :laugh:Which group? I'm in so many chats I don't know which ones you're in. :laugh:
The first building blocks of an indie pirate collective - Tomtomrawr - 09-11-2010
Still looking for comments and ideas on how to improve this.
The first building blocks of an indie pirate collective - Jansen - 09-11-2010
I like the idea, could turn out to be an awesome addition to the current factions.
The first building blocks of an indie pirate collective - Agmen of Eladesor - 09-11-2010
I like the idea of a Pirate Union. The PU group, because they leave such a stink behind them... :)
Seriously, though - for independant pirates, the ones who have freelancer IFF's, this would be a workable idea. A loose grouping that will help each other pull off a job - they're more REAL criminals than anything else. When you think about it - the vast majority of the 'pirate' groups on the server aren't criminals because they want to be - they're criminals because their political activities or something else forces them to work against the lawfuls.
(I could go into a big discussion on the politics behind the Hessians, or the LWB, or the Corsairs, or the ... but I think you get the picture.)
Your group would be crooks just because they LIKE being crooks. To borrow a quote that wasn't - you're robbing the banks because that's where the money is. Or in this case, you're robbing the miners not because you have a high moral standing or to run people out of Dublin or whatever - you're doing this to get rich.
I could actually see quite a bit of forum RP out of something like this as well, because you could post 'news' reports of robberies on jewelry stores, bank robberies, and then every time you hit someone - even the ubiquitous civilian transports - you report it as a 'train' robbery.
I think my pirate that mostly works around Rhienland would be interested in something like this group.