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+--- Thread: it makes me wonder (/showthread.php?tid=47970)
it makes me wonder - Exsiled_one - 10-04-2010
Perhaps the future brings us time where human life is worth less than today (what is really hard to believe) and you can actually get people that have no moral problem with shooting down a transport ship with at least 15 crew members down. And do so every day at least 2 or three times. Unarmed civilians I guess.
So question rises does one do that because he needs something or because it is fun for him to do so.
If the answer is c) because he's at war then we're getting off topic because wars are fought today on the similar principles. Trade routes are cut, even by force if needed and armed men are shot down.
But I'm talking about the current piracy going on.
Let's take Liberty Rogues for example. These men know they cannot rule Liberty or overthrow the government. So they usually need something out of the traders and others that come to liberty with money. (passengers / tourists / miners)
So this rogue sets sail towards a tradelane and he's got a bomber with 300 cargo hold that is usually filled with some day rations bit of water and possibly some commodities needed while camping.
And this guy intercepts a trader, under a threat of blowing him up. Now here's the part that's puzzling me, and has been since i started to play this game. (that's why I never pirated for cash)
Lets say this guy meets an USI trade ship and the guy is full of light arms. So rogue wants 3 million and this guy refuses to pay them so he blows him up. Knowing he cannot really collect any good cargo from him the rogue was left without paycheck and without any worthy cargo there.
I guess he's depressed. So he repeats it bout 20 times a day, 5 days a week. After killing 100 trade ships that didnt pay / refused to / who cares this guy has killed about 1500 people in a week.
And that's only the traders, without the police or other forces that are engaging the unlawfuls daily.
So when you kill approximately 1500 people a week, or hell lets cut that number down by 50% and say you kill 750 people per week. Your 6 months old character has killed 18 000 people. I sure hope some of them payed you pirate non terrorist completely sane man who cares for human life.
Huzzah.
Where cash piracy failed the cargo piracy succeeded in 100% of the cases. Either they got the goods or they got the loot after they've blown the ship up.
Of course question poses does the man simply kill the crew or they escape in the escape pods. if they do the entire theory falls in water or becomes bit less significant. But the bottom line kinda does stick out.
One type of "pirates" destroys without profit, other one has a motivation to destroy.
If you kill for the pleasure of the kill doesn't it make you a terrorist?
And how many people would actually take a terrorist ID over some other ID's if terrorist was up to grabs just because they don't feel like roleplaying their role?
or to put it in completely different way. How many of you pirates because it's awesome to SNAC a trader?
How many of you do not trade, but instead use piracy for their income?
it makes me wonder - Jinx - 10-04-2010
a difference which can be RPed is mentioned in the lore of the gaians
for example - the original gaians would harrass and attack, but not destroy or extort OSI shuttles / liners. - meaning, they would CD them - disrupt their journey, damage them, target sutargets - but not destroy them entirely.
they would scare the passenger so that they d never fly again - cause everyone would know that it would only be the mercy of the attackers that kept them from dieing a cold death in space.
so in disco rules FL terms, terrorism can be:
- harrass the target
- do not demand cash or cargo
- do not destroy the target
- destroy subtargets if you can ( thrusters, turrets, etc )
for that purpose ( i only did it in 4.84 sometimes ) - equipping something else but a SNAC was a good choice. - a nova vs. a liner would rip it off its turrets ( provided it would hit )
edit:
to sum it up - transparency of roleplay helps... - most terrorists would fight against something - and want to make their point very clear by the actions they perform.
a pirate however fights for a personal gain - how he achieves it how or how his actions are perceived by those he attacks is quite irrelevant as long as his payout looks fine.
it makes me wonder - Curios - 10-04-2010
Pirates are pirating in case of getting some shiny booty.
Terrorists are people who using the weaknesses of another groups of people to achieve their political or any other goals.
People who harassing another people without reasons are maniacs.
it makes me wonder - Exsiled_one - 10-04-2010
Yeah. that stands as you described it and it is actually awesome. Something I have going in the works (still on paper) will focus on disrupting the targets and damaging them but not destroying the ship. (imo there's no escape pods, once you eject if someone doesn't tractor you it's poof)
But I'm concerned about the number of people behaving like their character is one thing while the ID says the other thing. It's like Corsairs. At age of 13 they're sent for their maturity test. (i dont care if it's 16 i'm talking out of my head.)
Nation says that good percentage of these people dies. And good percentage comes back infertile or sterile. That means a small percentage of the lucky ones come back fine. It appears everyone is playing the "lucky ones" in the server.
we've got the same situation with underaged battleship captains, and "rogues" or "pirates" that are soulless. Isn't there a human in the space?
@ Curios. But if you pirate they guy for 2mil and he refuses to pay them. do you blow his ship for profit? Not if you're in bomber. You blow it for anger and to "teach him a lesson"
I did the math up there, and I never saw any talk about "escape pods" in those ships. But whenver you click on pilot commodity it says they have very small amount of time to get tractored. So basically your "teaching a lesson" kills a lot of people daily. that doesn't make you a pirate, makes you a maniac. last I saw, maniac ID isn't around.
it makes me wonder - Curios - 10-04-2010
Well, some of those traders are just silently running from you or just going like "kill me", so destroying the ship is OORP factor to force them to play. Normal people are usually dropping everything to save a life in light of being demanded to drop stuff or being killed, but in game it's just *respawn* button. So, this is OORP factor of loosing time and cargo, there is no another way to force someone to do something you want against his will without using that factor.
Also pirates could be bloody to keep moral in crew and their own authority and weight via executing traders.
it makes me wonder - Exsiled_one - 10-04-2010
I think I should start making smaller posts. I write too much for people to read.
I do not understand tho. I'd report a trader who says "kill me" because he's not roleplaying.
it makes me wonder - Curios - 10-04-2010
Quote:But if you pirate they guy for 2mil and he refuses to pay them. do you blow his ship for profit? Not if you're in bomber. You blow it for anger and to "teach him a lesson"
Quote:Also pirates could be bloody to keep moral in crew and their own authority and weight via executing traders.
Look, i answered here, pirate can kill trader to show to his mates that he is strong and serious. He is pirate and don't forgiving those who gona play with him. This is authority. If trader will go like "Piss off" and pirate will let him go what then? His crew will decide that their captain have no balls and they'll go against him to take over the ship.
So when pirate killing trader who refusing to pay he is basically showing his own man what will happen to those who dare to toy with him. Pirate crews are always based on fear and authority of strongest people.
it makes me wonder - Hawkins - 10-04-2010
From my (little) Rp experience in disco (new member) it`s because of two different kind of players in game. The guy who likes RP and the guy who doesn`t like to RP but playes on disco though because here he has over 150 guys to possibly shoot at every day.
Sure, there are situations, where a pirate in RP can destroy a transport with more than 25 people onboard and getting no profit from it. But those situations in my eyes are rare. I myself so far never played a pirate, maybe I will try it. But if I do, I maybe wouldn`t destroy a trader after the first ransom deny. For example shooting the trader nearly down and then ask again "are you sure you don`t want to pay?". Also a nice idea might be highjacking a trader of a bigger company with some buddys to press the creds from the company itself (in RL to be seen in Somalia, aye?;))
I myself had some very nice RP situations where pirates acted human. For example when I transported refugees from Leeds to Porto Novo (wanted to buy a new ship there). In Dublin I was stopped by a whole armada of local pirates (Gaians, Mollys...even some Outcast I believe were with them). as I explained my plan to get the refugees to Porto for a new start as I have buissness there anyways...the whole horde let me pass without any harm or ransom, they RPed well that I had 2000(!) civilians on board. If they would have had hijacked me to press creds from bretonian government would have been nice RP aswell btw.
it makes me wonder - ... kur nubėgo? - 10-04-2010
Terrorists - people who use a tactic to spread terror, atmsophere of insecurity and fear. So that civilian populus or the ones who care about these would comply with requiriments of demanding party who uses these methods of terrorism. Terrorism itself is not a primary goal. Only a tool. Most oftenly a harsh one. It doesn't tries to achieve killings. But only to create that fear. You can kill 1000 and make no-one fear you (if the murders weren't noticed) or you can kill no-one and everyone will fear you. The second example would be terrorist. The first one would be mass murder. But of course. Mass killings to install fear is the easiest way.
Ones who kill for fun are simply serial killer maniacs. Not terrorist.
Robber who is willing to kill someone becouse he didn't got paid - killer/burgler.
Now for instance if pirate group would want money and would start killing people for not paying them with a intent to install fear and make people pay might be called some sort of terrorism. But im my eyes it's just recket.
Conclusion: stupid liberty rogue is not a terrorist by any mean.
it makes me wonder - Shryke - 10-05-2010
You're overthinking a simple problem - game mechanics prevent proper, historically based piracy (stealing goods) in any meaningful way.
Yes, it's as simple as that.
As for killing thousands of "people" a week... you're forgetting it's just a game. You will do things in a game you never would in real life. Kinda the whole poing of video games.