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+--- Thread: Gcorp rises from the ashes, a Faction Submission (/showthread.php?tid=5089)
Gcorp rises from the ashes, a Faction Submission - bluntpencil2001 - 12-22-2007
You're not being flamed. I can do a hellofalot worse, buddy.
Not having seen you operate is a plenty good reason to be a bit skeptical actually. It's one of the marks of 'Yet Another New Faction'. The fact that you've come in as a pre-setup group, who have admitted to picking one of the first NPC factions that weren't taken yet, for that very reason, adds to this feeling.
If, for instance, someone has come in and said "Wow! This server really needs GMG, I better fix that..." I'd be less skeptical... but right now it looks like we're seeing yet another "Hmm, how can I start up a faction of my very own and get away with it" situation.
Expect criticism. That's why faction proposals are used.
Gcorp rises from the ashes, a Faction Submission - Turkish - 12-22-2007
Well as you've chosen a mining guild as your faction base extremely strong military vessels aren't exactly the most logical choice of ship class. A mix of transports and medium escorts makes more sense to me. Perhaps refine your ranking system based off of a real life petroleum corporation?
I ask now will you be RPing the actual transport of H-Fuel and its related commodities? If so then you can certainly justify armed escorts for you convoys in high pirate areas. I must say that it is somewhat unfair of you to become irritated with the community for nit picking your faction, considering thats what this post is basically for. We've seen far too many YANFs already, be forgiving if we're skeptical.
I would personally love to see a proper and working GMG faction myself, so I'm on your side. One suggestions is uniform naming conventions for your members. In game I've already seen two separate [Gcorp] taged players with different capitalisations of their names.
Ex.
[Gcorp]-XXXX
[GCorp]XXXX
Over all it does not give a complete and professional feel to your faction, and that saddens me as an RP enthusiast. I must say thought that GMG using Kusari ships makes no more sense to me than a LPI tagged player flying a Falcata, yes I've seen it. I would consider sticking to IMG and Rheinland vessels, it makes more RP sense really( as well as civilian ships).
Gcorp rises from the ashes, a Faction Submission - chopper - 12-22-2007
Look, i don't mind any of these.
Quote:-We Explore for new resources...Implying fighter wings.
-Send out Expeditions to investigate those resources...Implying cruisers and gunboats to help defend our explorers.
-We then Aquire those resources...Possibly using a battleship(s) to secure the area, while our transports run back and forth...
All quoted is not my concern, i did have some complaints about cap ships, but they are not that important, as are other things.
Yes, they look like Asians, but, so do Blood Dragons.
That doesn't give them the right to use Kusari ships.
For example. Hogosha are friends of KNF, helping them in a war etc (not official, it is all a secret to population of Kusari).
Hogosha is in the same time an enemy of GMG.
If KNF would put your faction to more then neutral stance (if you have neutral and bellow, you simply can't use Kusari ships), then Hogosha would have to reconsider their diplomacy.
Which i personally don't mind, it is up to the KNF to make their decision.
It is not as simple as : "Hey, he's Asian, give him a Catamaran".
That's all I'm saying.
Further, you want to use Kusari Explorers + Kusari Gunboats.
Now, Explorers fit really great in your faction, but why gunboats?
Quote:Kusari Explorer(One every two players)Why would you use gunboats as explorers?
Kusari Gunboat(Counts as an explorer)
If you are specialized in exploring, then you should use Kusari Explorer.
Or even Spatial, IMG would gladly give you those.
And again, you need a KNF approval for Gunboats.
Skyblasts are weak for shields? Well, use Debilitators.
No one said you have to use skyblasts.
You can use Nomads, Codes, even Kusari weapons.
But all lootable is really too much, and i think everyone who reads this topic would agree with me.
You say you have chosen a more effective option.
But is this option good for RP?
Have you considered that?
I mean, if you are allowed to loot and mount weapons, why wouldn't Outcasts be allowed?
Or Corsairs?
I can already see Outcasts with Tizonas and Corsairs with Krakens.
It is a lousy solution, sorry, but i had to say that.
Quote:So, we should be allowed to have a variety of ships in our forces, so long as they're GMG, Zoner, Kusari(with KNF approval), Kishiro, and civilian...
Yes, but I have to say it again. Variety has to be logical.
And using Catamaran, or Havoc II is not logical.
No one would buy a bomber on "alternative market" if they are manufacturing their own.
Use Taiidans.
Edit :
' Wrote:The "Tsar" Isn't an official title, rather it was an in-joke so stop taking it so damn seriously.
And can we stop going on about the exploration? You implement the mining of gas clouds and we'll freaking do it, until then we'll do it exactly the same way as the GMG Npc's do. Immovable stations do the mining, we do the fighting and transporting.
And the reason I'm getting irratated by 'suggestions' is because they ARE NOT SUGGESTIONS, rather your picking my idea apart and saying "NA-UH DON'T GO THERE SISTER", simply because you don't like the idea and think we're full of crap doesn't make it so. Most of the people who have posted haven't even SEEN us operate yet and are merely going under nothing but your own assumptions. Get over it.
I'm trying to be lenient and make changes that will be suitable but instead my entire faction is being flamed because the rest don't like the idea of having someone that's actually armed.
Actually, i have given you more then a few suggestions.
And you argued about every single one.
You haven't even said that it will be considered.
And i doubt they have been considered.
If someone tells me that he wants his faction to use best weapons because he can't chase off pirates from Sigmas, and may i remind you that one of your folks said that, then something is wrong.
Nothing is lost here, no one is destroying your faction.
But it will not last long unless you do some radical changes, and this really is a suggestion.
You are new guys here, and you should at least listen the critiques that some old-timers have to say.
Gcorp rises from the ashes, a Faction Submission - u79 - 12-22-2007
' Wrote:-It is possible to RP in an enjoyable manner. If your wish is to "PWN pirates" and enjoy, i rest my case.
-They usually fly capital ships. Then you should usually fly Taiidan bombers. That's simple.
-They don't have access to best weaponry, they have access to theirs + allies weaponry.
-They don't have limitless source of income, that's just silly.
Traders are their income, Pirating is what they do. And that instantly kills your next sentence, which says that they don't role play their factions.
-It is not about combating here, mate.
It is about RP. You simply can't use all that you want, even if you need it to win a battle. Especially if you need it to win a battle.
-And now it seems that RP is inferior to PVP, in your faction.
You should reconsider that as well.
And if they are more skilled then you, and you want to use best of the best because of that.. I have something to say.
Maybe you should become skilled as well then, before making a faction?
I mean, if PVP is of that importance to you, then start practicing, don't make a faction.
However, if you are not skilled, but RP is more important, then go ahead and make a faction. And RP it well.
But it doesn't seem that way, sorry.
Don't just use the best, You will never learn to fly if you fly only the best.
So wanting the ability to defend our system against the current flood of piracy isn't roleplaying? It's somehow not realistic that a well funded guild would not be able to afford better ships and weaponry than a band of outlaws? How can you accuse us of not roleplaying when the people we are fighting are doing the exact same thing? Any kind of real world economy cannot work when piracy is as rampant as it is in sigma 13, and the realistic response of any military would be to combat power with power. Maybe you're suggesting we can clog their guns with the bodies of our dead? If that's your idea of roleplaying you can have it.
When I say the pirates don't roleplay I mean that they roleplay being a pirate/demigod that is neutral to every NPC. I don't know about you, but I don't consider it roleplaying when pirates can camp outside OUR bases without being fired upon because they are neutral to us. Corsair NPCs are hostile to GMG, yet corsair tagged players are not, and that is roleplaying?
Pirates have nearly unlimited funds simply because of their profession and their near-absolute control in our territory. We HAVE to trade for income, we have no other option. Every time we trade we end up giving 50% of our income to the flood of pirates that we are powerless to stop. In addition to their pirate characters, they also have traders and other forms of income. So for all intents and purposes, they have a budget that is larger than ours simply because we cannot make money while they operate at the current level.
Ever since we started playing on this server we've experienced overt hostility like I've never seen in a roleplaying game, both in the forums here and in the game itself. We started out just wanting to trade while we got a hang of the game. Suddenly there are threads with people saying they will mark us KoS for not saying what LLJK stood for. We chose LLJK over Gcorp to begin with in an attempt to avoid being connected with the previous Gcorp(of which only one or two of us were members). We decided to use Gcorp anyway because we figured the hostility couldn't possibly be worse, and the name fit better. We chose a faction to ally with thinking it would be relatively peaceful, and suddenly we're KoS with a RM over a war we thought was over 80 years prior. We get constantly accused of not roleplaying, while we see many others acting in exactly the same manner. It was literally the second day of playing on this server when I heard one of us comment, "roleplaying here means I can do anything I want, but if you try it it's OORP." It's sad, but from this thread alone I would have to agree with that sentiment.
' Wrote:In game I've already seen two separate [Gcorp] taged players with different capitalisations of their names.
Ex.
[Gcorp]-XXXX
[GCorp]XXXX
That was my fault, I fumbled the shift key on creation and didn't notice until after getting my ship and so forth. Unit746 is a test to see if I can RP a "defense AI", if it works well I'll switch to a different character or get a name change.
Gcorp rises from the ashes, a Faction Submission - bluntpencil2001 - 12-22-2007
Pirates that don't roleplay properly get a lot of hostility too. Don't go spouting the 'they did it, so we will too'. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that.
Now, if you don't want to listen to constructive criticism, why bother with a faction proposal post?
Gcorp rises from the ashes, a Faction Submission - chopper - 12-22-2007
Heh, it is funny.
If you want your defending of Sigmas to be role-playing, then don't use all lootable weapons.
You can fight power with power, but with Outcast dreadnought you can't (it is an example, not accusation).
Clog power with power, but your power, not someone else's.
Take 2,3 Taiidans, and Corsair Gunboats will be gone in matter of minutes.
Is that so hard to do?
And those "Band of Outlaws" are very powerful actually. They are very, very powerful.
If they were just a band, they would be wiped out long time ago.
They are neutral to GMG because it is hard to keep reputation how it should be.
But, i agree it is oorp if they don't shoot a CD in GMG NPC's to make things right.
There are too many Pirates out there. And some of them are OORP.
Put that doesn't give you the right to make a registered faction that will do the same, just because they do it.
If you put role-play in front of PVP aspect, you will soon become a respected and accepted faction.
Please, do that.
Trading is much more profitable then Pirating. Trust me. They don't have limitless source of income.
Quote:We chose a faction to ally with thinking it would be relatively peaceful, and suddenly we're KoS with a RM over a war we thought was over 80 years prior.
Well, have you actually read the Allies and Enemies before choosing that faction? I think not.
Quote:I heard one of us comment, "roleplaying here means I can do anything I want, but if you try it it's OORP." It's sad, but from this thread alone I would have to agree with that sentiment.
If your idea of roleplyaing (using all weapons, all ships with "some kind of" roleplay behind it) is a way to improve Roleplaying here, then i misunderstood this entire thread.
Gcorp rises from the ashes, a Faction Submission - KercKasha - 12-22-2007
' Wrote:Heh, it is funny.
If you want your defending of Sigmas to be role-playing, then don't use all lootable weapons.
You can clog power with power, but with Outcast dreadnought you can't (it is an example, not accusation).
Clog power with power, but your power, not someone else's.
Take 2,3 Taiidans, and Corsair Gunboats will be gone in matter of minutes.
Is that so hard to do?
And those "Band of Outlaws" are very powerful actually. They are very, very powerful.
If they were just a band, they would be wiped out long time ago.
They are neutral to GMG because it is hard to keep reputation how it should be.
But, i agree it is oorp if they don't shoot a CD in GMG NPC's to make things right.
Trading is much more profitable then Pirating. Trust me. They don't have limitless source of income.
Well, have you actually read the Allies and Enemies before choosing that faction? I think not.
If your idea of roleplyaing (using all weapons, all ships with "some kind of" roleplay behind it) is a way to improve Roleplaying here, then i misunderstood this entire thread.
Oh yeah you misunderstood the thread alright.
Listen up, I'm only going to say this once, if anyone mentions this crap ever again I'm ignoring it entirely because the ignorance even at this moment is unbelievably overwhelming.
I have been on the case of my members non-stop to make sure they use the proper weapons, but in times of battle sometimes you gotta make use of what is at hand, because we plan on NOT docking at stations regularly when a gun gets shot off how will we replace it out there? We'll just fit whatever we have at hand until we can get back to base and get our gear in order. I realize when you dock your modules get replaced, but that isn't in roleplay and imo is rather silly hence why we're actually ROLEPLAYING IT, we're not doing it for a petty advantage, we won't be flying a Corsair Dreadnaught loaded up with Order weapons on it, no we'll be flying a GMG or Kusari ship with mainly Skyblasts, maybe a nomad or two, and maybe the odd outcast weapon, usually ONE OR TWO MAX! It is NOT going to be the END OF DAYS like some of you are making it seem, it'll be a temporary solution to an RP problem until the ships can be repaired after battle. Stop making a big deal out of something that almost all other factions have, even the RM allows the use of two looted weapons(and thats a permanent thing mind you.)
Now about ships, I allowed all ships simply because the Company is a GUILD, if a character for example used to work for the Bounty Hunters guild and eventually decides to do some contracted security work, he might end up joining our ranks and would probably prefer to use his own ship and weapons. Because he's a contractor he can do so as much as he likes. We're trying to be freaking flexiable not the omni-potent gods of freelancer that can destroy you with mere thought, calm the hell down about this.
The reason I'm getting irratated by these posts is because most of them are NOT constructive critism, the posts that have been made that have brought up points that actually have a point(Such as limiting the actual standard array of ships, which I'm going to do anyway) I have taken into consideration. Other posts that are blatant b****ing of "I DON'T LIKE THIS:(" with little no assistance nor help on the subject matter are pointless and resemble that of someone with half a working brainpan, so I ignore them.
If you don't like the idea of it, good and all, Bring it up in a constructive manner and help me fix up the problems, but don't act like a spoilt child if you don't like the reasoning behind it. I'm trying my best to keep my self from just throwing in the towel because all I have gotten is hostilities after the first page and its rather appalling how you people act, your too snobby and arrogant for you own good, ditch it and adapt for once.
The next post I see better be something useful and actually constructive.
Gcorp rises from the ashes, a Faction Submission - chopper - 12-22-2007
Excuse me, we'r the ones who are acting like a spoilt child?
While you are yelling and jumping on each and every single critique, with your teeth sharpened?
Ok, here is some constructive criticism :
Quote:Your suggestions make in impossible to roleplay in any enjoyable manner. At any given moment, we are outnumbered by pirates at least 2-1. They usually fly capital ships. They have access to basically the best weaponry and equipment around. They have a nearly limitless source of income. They don't roleplay their factions. And they are generally more experienced pilots than us. We simply cannot combat them using fighters and the limited weaponry you demand. The result would be as it is now, GMG space would be controlled by corsairs, and GMG would be relegated to running and hiding.
You see, it says here you are going to use lootable weapons for defending Sigmas.
Home is near. Replace the gear.
If in Omicrons, use 2 lootable weapons.
If in Sigmas, don't use them.
Constructive enough?
Another one.
Don't use Havoc II. Use Taiidan only, concerning bombers.
Have a variety in fighters, don't have it in bombers.
I understand it is a guild, anyone can join, fly their own ship.
But that doesn't bring too much RP in your faction, i hope you know what i mean.
One more constructive criticism.
Try to calm down, and argue like a civilized person.
In last post you have said that we were flaming you, and now you are nearly biting.
As Blunt told you, be ready for critiques, as you are new guys here, making a new faction.
Some call it YANF, i don't, because there are some actually pretty good aspects in your faction.
But there is room for improvement, and i hope you will use it.
Gcorp rises from the ashes, a Faction Submission - KercKasha - 12-22-2007
' Wrote:Excuse me, we'r the ones who are acting like a spoilt child?
While you are yelling and jumping on each and every single critique, with your teeth sharpened?
Ok, here is some constructive criticism :
You see, it says here you are going to use lootable weapons for defending Sigmas.
Home is near. Replace the gear.
If in Omicrons, use 2 lootable weapons.
If in Sigmas, don't use them.
Constructive enough?
Another one.
Don't use Havoc II. Use Taiidan only, concerning bombers.
Have a variety in fighters, don't have it in bombers.
I understand it is a guild, anyone can join, fly their own ship.
But that doesn't bring too much RP in your faction, i hope you know what i mean.
One more constructive criticism.
Try to calm down, and argue like a civilized person.
In last post you have said that we were flaming you, and now you are nearly biting.
As Blunt told you, be ready for critiques, as you are new guys here, making a new faction.
Some call it YANF, i don't, because there are some actually pretty good aspects in your faction.
But there is room for improvement, and i hope you will use it.
I was trying to be polite, earlier in the thread I was. But then it ended up in a giant hate fest about something stupid about lootable weapons.
I never said anything about Sigma-13, that was one of my members, the only people you should listen to is Biggles and I because we're the ones that are running the show at the moment. We're not even going to be working in Sigma-13 when the ball rolls, please do not use quotes from other members to prove a point against me.
Reread the thread, I was meaning to change and remove ships and I have done so just a moment ago.
Whats using different ships got to do with Roleplay? If you work for the same company, why on earth would you drive the same car? We're a guild of miners, not a military or navy. We use what we have currently to get the job done, but we supply our own equipment if a member doesn't have his own and prefer that they do fly our own stuff. It's simply there to make it easier on our members so they can stick to their own backgrounds rather then be mindless robots in a non-existent navy. If anything it adds to roleplay.
I'd rather not argue when the entire argument is the same thing throughout the entire thread, esspecially when I've already said I was going to fix it when I got the chance and yet the posts continued, don't tell me to be civilized when people are too ignorant to read the entire thread before they put their own stupid opinion that has been stated a million times now. hence why I said to drop it and leave it, I'll work on it.
Gcorp rises from the ashes, a Faction Submission - Zelot - 12-22-2007
So I think I finally figuerd out what was bothering me about this thread. I think the two sides of the argument arnt on the same page to begin with. I used to debate in high school, and the first thing you did in a debate was to define your terms, and I think people are using the same words thinking they are diffrent. First to the Gcorp peps, I accualy like what you guys are doing in game, I spend a significant amount of time in Kusari space and have had a number of run in with you, most have been fun. I think your problem is that you want to be a faction that wins. The problem with that is that on this server, factions dont play to win, they play to play thier charactors. For instance, TBH fought a war with RM recently, and the roleplay for the campaign was set up so that even if the TBH won every battle ( which we didn't:(not even close ) the RP would still be that in the end they were defeted. I'm working on an FA group and the fun of playing those charactors is that they are weak, their the underdogs and the underdogs dont have the top weapons or ships, thats just how it goes and it's fun. Now we need to make another distinction, you talk about how the sigmas are overrun with pirates, well the sigmas exist between the two major pirate factions, of course there will be alot of pirates around. Now I know there are lots of independents out there who dont RP well and have weapons and ships that are way out of RP, but if you look at the other factions, they tend to be well disiplined about it. You want to be a faction, you need to hold yourself up to a higher standerd than the independent pirates you deal with. Factions in Disco should be becons of how we RP here, an example to new players of what we are looking for on this server. This is one of the problems with coming in new and trying to start a faction, factions in disco are more than just groups of people, and require much more than factions in other communities. You cant use the fact that independets are decked out to make your faction over pimped.
PS. My one note of a more concrete sense is that I think you have a problem with using Kusari military ships. The Hogosho and Farmers Alliance are allies, and both hold significant political power the Kusari Government and would likly undermind any effort to sell Kusari ships of any kind to the GMG. They would be sucsessful because the Kusari Government needs those to groups to help maintain stablity domesticly as well as in thier fight against the Britonians. This while the GMG needs the Kusari government to help secure the sigmas as well as free accses through Kusari space. Thus Kusari needs the Hogosho and FA, while GMG needs Kusari, this is the current food chain on the subjerct of ships and why you shouldnt use Kusari ships.
PPS. I hope the next post is not about my spelling or grammer.