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+---- Thread: Fighter Torpedoes (/showthread.php?tid=52683)
Fighter Torpedoes - Backo - 01-06-2011
Hello, my dear community, let's talk about fighter torpedoes, shall we?
Now like many of you I'm a Mini Razor user, since that's my favourite thing to mount on that CD/Torpedo slot. And for probably around, let's see, one or two years (my time on Disco) I've always used the razor without thinking about torpedoes, at all. But lately I got to fly with a dude that came from the HHC server and didn't want to give up on torpedoes. So I decided to try them myself, got myself a ship, got the equipment and took it to Connie. Now here's what I got out of that:
Sunslayer - It's a torpedo with damage that's almost equal to the Mini Razor. Bad side is - tracking is so bad that your target must turn off thruster and move in 1 direction in order for you to hit. Another bad thing is - there's 0.5 sec motor delay. That means you wait half a second before the torpedo activates it's own engines. Damage is 18 555, compared to the Razor's 19 444.
Starkiller - Now this is the torpedo I got recommended and the one I'm still using. Good thing is - it's easier to lock on the target and there is no motor delay, meaning it goes ahead of you once you fire it. Problem of course is: 11 200 damage, meaning it's just around 60% of Razor's potential.
So let's re-evaluate the thing:
Torpedoes do LESS damage then the mini razor; Negative side
Torpedoes are LIMITED to 70 shots, unlike the mini razor; Negative side
Torpedoes can get blocked with CMs or CDs, unlike the mini razor; Negative side
Torpedoes do component splash damage, unlike the mini razor; Positive side
Torpedoes don't need as much energy as the mini razor; Positive side
Now, after speaking to a few people they told me back in the days of .83, torpedoes were actually a devastating counterpart to the mini razor. Now... Well right now it's either CD or MR, nearly no one chooses a torpedo.
So here is my idea:
a) Buff both torpedoes' damage so that they could be a better alternative to the razor in some situations.
b) Give Sunslayer the tracking and motor reaction of the Starkiller so that it harms the enemy on hit, just like the razor.
Discuss?
Fighter Torpedoes - Panzer - 01-06-2011
I'm allergic to limited ammo.
Fighter Torpedoes - mjolnir - 01-06-2011
' Wrote:Now, after speaking to a few people they told me back in the days of .83, torpedoes were actually a devastating counterpart to the mini razor. Now... Well right now it's either CD or MR, nearly no one chooses a torpedo.
That was because of 2 things
1. 1 shot instakills on all vanilla fighters (sabre, titan, eagle, guardian, wrath, templar, chimaera, nepthys+)
2. 2-3 hits would blow guns from all fighters/bombers
Quote:So here is my idea:
a) Buff both torpedoes' damage so that they could be a better alternative to the razor in some situations.
b) Give Sunslayer the tracking and motor reaction of the Starkiller so that it harms the enemy on hit, just like the razor.
a) can't up Sunslayer damage much more else it will instakill all HFs and even some VHFs, now it instakills only LFs
b) if Sunslayer has same tracking and same engine as Starkiller while it does more damage, why would you use Starkiller?
=> looking for opinions here, how to make Sunslayer alternative while not better in everything?
Idea now was that Sunslayer should be anti-bomber while Starkiller is anti-fighter, but bombers are now so easily killed by fighters anyway, so there isn't much need for those.
===========================================
Off course the main problem of torpedoes as well as missile is lag. Use them on server with smaller load and they are uber. Lag makes Starkiller miss and exaggerates the delay on Sunslayer.
Currently torps are very good choice only on LFs with torp slots (only Loki in 4.85) and on HFs as they enable them to engage VHFs 1vs1, something they are kinda weakest at. Because with good flying it is possible to fire the torp even before the other guy finished turning and since they use little to no energy it's possible to do that at any opportunity that comes. Again this is only true with low lag. At the same time mini razor gets "better" with more lag cause you can hit ships that freeze in one place for a short time.
Fighter Torpedoes - Backo - 01-06-2011
Rather well explained, Mjolnir, but does Sunkiller still need to have such low damage? Perhaps somewhere around 15 000 hull damage would make it more appealing? Because right now 1 razor hit is nearly equal to 2 torpedo hits (Sunkiller ones).
Fighter Torpedoes - Lunaphase - 01-06-2011
So easily killed by fighters? Mjolnir? whatever you have been smoking, i want some.
Fighter Torpedoes - Backo - 01-06-2011
Just to add another downside in torpedoes:
You can hit a running target with razor, but your chance to torpedo the running target is a lot lower, if not impossible.
Also I fought a guy with missiles and let me tell you - the lag doesn't cripple them that much. It's just current torpedo turning, if the target does a sudden turn, the torpedo has no chance to bend enough. It's 0.6 rad for Sunkiller, which for me is reasonable, even if missiles are ~ 4.0 rad. But Starslayer is only 0.3, which is down to half of Sunkiller's. And sadly it feels drastically worst, maybe because of the motor delay as well.
Fighter Torpedoes - minuit - 01-06-2011
And adding yet another downside to the Starkiller but particularly the Sunslayer.
In quite many fights, ships can pass very close to each other, most certainly within the range of torpedoes, making it very easy to blow yourself up. Naturally the Razor doesn't have that problem.
Fighter Torpedoes - Govedo13 - 01-06-2011
' Wrote:That was because of 2 thingsI have a question here.
1. 1 shot instakills on all vanilla fighters (sabre, titan, eagle, guardian, wrath, templar, chimaera, nepthys+)
2. 2-3 hits would blow guns from all fighters/bombers
a) can't up Sunslayer damage much more else it will instakill all HFs and even some VHFs, now it instakills only LFs
You mean instankill unarmoured vanilla fighters or armoured ones?
If you mean armoured then it does not instankill them, if you mean unarmoured then the razors do the same with the all fighters and the half of the bombers, and I still dont get it.
If this is the case then the nukes should do 7k dmg and the MR needs a major nerf too.Since the mining mod with enables people to have many credits I haven't seen any non au8 fighters flown by someone who is on the server for more then one week.
Do you mean some additional damage except the 11k/18k or what?
Fighter Torpedoes - Virus - 01-07-2011
He means that explosive damage in 4.84 meant that you could insta-kill Vanilla fighters (with armour) very easily.
Sunslayers, Nuke Mines, etc. Instantly killed fighters. A cannonball would leave a Wrath a smoking wreck on pixel health.
Fighter Torpedoes - mjolnir - 01-07-2011
Offtopic: pre-4.85 explosive damage done to vanilla fighters got multiplied by the number of components the ship has, since all vanilla fighters have at least 4 components a nuke/sunslayer that did 10k damage back then, would instakill any of them.