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+--- Thread: Outcast x Corsair equipment and ship balance (/showthread.php?tid=5641)
Outcast x Corsair equipment and ship balance - McNeo - 01-20-2008
Before Outcasts say they need something on par (or better, which is what is desired) with the stuff Corsairs get, Ill run you through the figures of the other ones that are here.
name...............weapons..cargo...hull....nb/sb......price.............notes
- Outcast Dread 0/16 1600 500000 800 470,000,000 Outcast Heavy Battleship
- Corsair Dread 0/16 1600 480000 800 465,000,000 Corsair Heavy Dreadnought
Those are the two contenders for heavy battleships of the two nations. As you can see, Corsair dread is slightly outclassed here.
- Outcast Battleship 0/14 1500 410000 800 455,000,000 Outcast Battleship
- Dragon Battleship 0/12 1400 390000 800 455,000,000 Blood Dragon Battleship
- Osiris 0/12 1400 340000 700 465,000,000 Order/Corsair Battleship
Those are the two support battleships of the 66th, vs our only available model, the Osiris. Now I know the Osiris used to be uber, but come on, look at those figures.
I could go on with the cruisers aswell, as stats wise I would trade in a Praetyre for a Heugenot any day of the week...
Consider this; Eppy himself said support battleships are supposed to be small. The Outcast battleship is noticably larger than the Osiris but the Dragons battleship less so. Then consider, you pay more for the Osiris than the Outcast and Dragon bs. One could say two things here. Either "But the Osiris has cloaking tech in RP" or "But the Corsairs have more numbers so we should have better tech!"
To the first I say "Does this make any difference to its performance in battle? No..."
To the second I say "Would you complain if suddenly all the Corsair independents defected to the Outcasts?" I dont think so, in fact, you would do everything you could to keep your perceived advantage...
Let me say this. The Outcasts having a tech advantage over the Corsairs is what you made up. We could claim equally the same thing and if enough of us kept going on and on and on about it, maybe it would happen. But no, we dont, because we dont want to ruin the experience for the poor outcasts.
Things in my life have put me past caring what people think about my genuine views anymore. And I am saying right here, look up at those battleship figures.
Also, realise this. Corsairs have one choice of battleship and one choice of dreadnought. Outcasts have... one choice of Dreadnought, and the Dragon Battleship, Outcast Battleship and Hacker Spyglass to choose from. Whichever one fits the style or desired role in combat they can choose. Corsairs are forced to adapt. Perhaps this is the way its been.
I can also tell you something else about the Corsairs. Most of us dont whine, because we fear the Outcasts and those within their fold. In an ooRP sense, not in RP. We dont moan about Nuke launchers for sale on Malta and not Crete. We dont moan about the disparity in performance between the Titan and the Sabre, cus seriously, turns faster than the most common fighter it faces, and strafes harder? Sure, the second part is vanilla, but why is the disparity so great when the Tizona and Colada rape the largest fighter powerplant, and the Outcasts get a counter anyway?
No other Corsairs will ever support me here of course, because they are fearful of the reaction they will get from the Outcasts. But damn my reputation as the guy who keeps his mouth shut about these kinds of things. Maybe I'll be the only voice for the Corsairs that speak what the hardcore Corsairs feel, but I dont mind that. Its time to put what I hear every day as private whining from those I fly with get on to this forum.
PS: If you wanna know how I got into that massive rant, it was this; "Technological advantage" and "Must give Corsair lunchboxes a hard time". If you want to beat a Corsair lunchbox in a supposedly underpowered rogue GB, practice your butt off. Look at Doom for crap sake! He can beat Corsair lunchboxes with his eyes closed because he practiced for ages and ages. But the Outcasts want the easy way of stat usage rather than actually practicing skills. Eppy proves that. Sorry, but you do.
This is one of the only rants where I have actually come down hard on a group of people. And I believe it is for good reason.
PPS: I showed this to one of my friends, and he said "That will so get deleted or ignored". Of course, Ill copy this and post it somewhere slightly more relevant if that is the case.
Outcast x Corsair equipment and ship balance - bluntpencil2001 - 01-20-2008
Sorry, McNeo, but I see bias here.
Nobody is saying there should be less Corsair ships. If it isn't fair, perhaps encourage people to make more things for Corsairs too. What's wrong with the Outcasts wanting gunboats? They are the perfect ships for pirating, as are bombers.
In spite of the Outcasts having lots more options, we still see hordes of Corsair players (Many of which don't even roleplay, so that argument is tossed out the window.). Things can't be that bad.
Outcast x Corsair equipment and ship balance - McNeo - 01-20-2008
Things aren't that bad, and you are right, there is bias there. Hence I am the self appointed spokes person of the Corsairs.
And its not like the Outcasts have a particular problem with Gunboat usage.
Yes, there are hordes of Corsair players, because Corsairs are generally more easy-going and easier to get to know than the Outcasts. Corsairs are the closest to the generic pirate, they have no particular goals, they just shout and invade with brute force.
But tell me, what is bias about those figures, which I ripped from the readme?
Outcast x Corsair equipment and ship balance - bluntpencil2001 - 01-20-2008
Well, the bias lies in the 'no gunboats for Outcasts' slant to the post. Why not? Just blow the darn things up, it'll be fun. That's what I'm going to do.
Also... I'm not sure that it's due to easy-goingness (made up word?), as players align themselves to the Corsairs before even speaking with anyone.
Outcast x Corsair equipment and ship balance - RingoW - 01-20-2008
@ McNeo: You have forgotten to mention the almighty Kraken II.
Also it would have been better to make a separate Thread.
My Corsair char doesn't care about OC equipment. Shall they have all the equipment they want. What i have, i'm pleased with.
Concerning the less armour of the Corsair Dread. It is smaller than the OC Dread and much better to handle.
Also the turrets are closer together, which is giving a better aiming.
The OC Battleship can shoot only 10 of its turrets forward and 8 backward and the Osiris is much smaller.
The Cruiser will get a update, to fire two more turrets backward at the same time. The OC Destroyer has 11 of its turrets on top, which is making it very vulnerable from downside to fighters and bombers.
Concerning fighters, the greatest difference is the pilot and not the stats. And for all Corsairs which do whine, shall they defect to OC's. I'm more concerned about Ivan Voronov. He is using a Ravons Talon and a Taiidan Bomber. The last one is an enemy vessel. He is no good example roleplaywise. Now try to explain a new corsair, why he can't have a Falcata.
Btw, i have chosen the Centurion for better agility. Its an underestimated fighter.
So, now we can go back to topic
Respectful
AoM
Outcast x Corsair equipment and ship balance - McNeo - 01-20-2008
No, im not argueing with their need for the gunboats. Im argueing with the fact that they want to take away every advantage we've got. Something on par to a Corsair gunboat in Outcast language translates into something with a better end result than its comparison. 6 turrets and a fwd gun or 8 gun slots? Are you kidding me or what? more armour to?
I will mark the day on my imaginary calendar when all Outcast tech supersedes Corsair tech.
at AoM: What about the Dragon's battleship? And don't forget the firing arcs on the Osiris aren't your best friend either.
The OC destroyer can evade shots point blank from the front and sides whereas, try telling that to the Corsair cruiser.
And yes, the centurion is underestimated. It also has less of everything than the Sabre. I've seen the centurion in the best hands and that certain pilot can beat me quite well.
One day, when you become an exemplary pilot, and decide to make a character for whatever reason who owns a sabre, you may see what I mean.
Outcast x Corsair equipment and ship balance - Equinox - 01-20-2008
I agree with McNeo, he wasn't even saying they shouldn't have a gunboat he was saying they shouldn't always get ships that supersedes every Corsair ship out there just to win, this is still a RP server right?.
There wanting a smaller designed gunboat to hold the same firepower of the Corsair gunboat which is a brick.
Also AoM,
Quote:Raven's Talon was designed by Independent Miners Guild for commercial purposes. Excellent speed, extended power capacity, and well-known quality standards of IMG made this ship popular on black market. Raven's Talon is one of the best very heavy fighters available for pirates and mercenaries - and surely most expensive.
I have no problem Ivan flying that ship, he has good RP for it (Brought it with him when he left SCRA).
Its also sold on a zoner base and the info card says it all really.
Would i want all Corsairs flying them? nope but i can see why he flys his.
Outcast x Corsair equipment and ship balance - bluntpencil2001 - 01-20-2008
' Wrote:Also AoM,
I have no problem Ivan flying that ship, he has good RP for it (Brought it with him when he left SCRA).
Actually, he left the SCRA in a Corsair gunboat and TBH apparently have rules on everyone owning Titans. I believe that was AoM's point, although I could be mistaken.
Outcast x Corsair equipment and ship balance - Razr - 01-20-2008
' Wrote:@ McNeo: You have forgotten to mention the almighty Kraken II.
Also it would have been better to make a separate Thread.
My Corsair char doesn't care about OC equipment. Shall they have all the equipment they want. What i have, i'm pleased with.
Concerning the less armour of the Corsair Dread. It is smaller than the OC Dread and much better to handle.
Also the turrets are closer together, which is giving a better aiming.
The OC Battleship can shoot only 10 of its turrets forward and 8 backward and the Osiris is much smaller.
The Cruiser will get a update, to fire two more turrets backward at the same time. The OC Destroyer has 11 of its turrets on top, which is making it very vulnerable from downside to fighters and bombers.
Concerning fighters, the greatest difference is the pilot and not the stats. And for all Corsairs which do whine, shall they defect to OC's. I'm more concerned about Ivan Voronov. He is using a Ravons Talon and a Taiidan Bomber. The last one is an enemy vessel. He is no good example roleplaywise. Now try to explain a new corsair, why he can't have a Falcata.
Btw, i have chosen the Centurion for better agility. Its an underestimated fighter.
So, now we can go back to topic
Respectful
AoM
Firstly, Ivan Voronov is my character, and as you may and mostly like may not know he is formerly coalition. Those are his ships from said faction, and he has them for a reason. Before you criticize RP, read it. The SCRA have crossed Ivan and he wants to make sure they realize it was their greatest mistake.
That Raven's Talon, Ivan learned from Ares how to fly, and Ivan will use it to destroy the coalition. Now.... I've seen how you post when you don't know something, you refuse to outright admit ignorance, well here's another solution, why not just shut up?
And... the outcast are overpowered. I have corsair ships and outcast ships. You've fought my blood dragon Marzoruki Kimozashi, it takes no skills to fly a BD VHF. It takes little skill to fly a Sabre. Try a Titan buddy it is HARD! They're Centurion is better than the Decurion! The only advantage they did have was countered by the inferno, as the inferno drains a lot of energy and is a one shot per pass thing, not so bad. Now the energy drain for corsair guns is insane, another minor advantage loss. So.... can those who have no idea what the hell they're talking about be quiet?
Outcast x Corsair equipment and ship balance - RingoW - 01-20-2008
Also i have not complaint about the RT. I have complaint about the Taiidan which is an GMG vessel only.
And its enough now. Back on topic.
Respectful
AoM