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+--- Thread: The letter of the law (/showthread.php?tid=5986)
The letter of the law - Reverend Del - 02-04-2008
I've seen quite a few threads on so called "grey areas" in the rules, and I would just like to say this:
If, when deciding on a ship to fly with your current ID you have to "interpret" the ID to fit the ship, you can be assured that you aren't supposed to use it. The IDs are really quite specific about which ships you can and can't use for which particular actions, and most do say no to certain types of ships if necessary.
If, when selecting a ship to use for your faction, you have to come up with a long and convoluted story, that you don't intend to put up on the forums as RP, don't get the ship. I've seen some good RPs based on characters having a ship they possibly shouldn't have, I've also seen some people flying around in ships that really don't fit, and no explanation as to why.
If you want to do something that you think may be prohibited by the rules, err on the side of caution and presume it is. Ask if what you want to do is prohibited but ask clearly, don't skirt the issue like some sort of dodgy geezer looking for a loophole.
The Discovery rules are quite concise and succint, they don't need interpreting, that job has already been done by the admins, and then they posted them.
Read the rules, ingest the rules, re-read the rules and finally digest them. Read your ID and make sure you understand it. Read your NPC faction's Infocard and make sure you understand that. If all players did this we'd have a hell of a lot less OORP moments and a lot less threads looking for a way around the rules.
The letter of the law - mwerte - 02-04-2008
Concise rules? where? yes they are fairly clear, but no where near concise. (well...compaired to the US Tax Code...). But other then that...good job. "When in doubt, don't do it."
The letter of the law - Reverend Del - 02-04-2008
I personally think they are as concise as they need to be for Disco, they cover pretty much everything that needs to be covered. But I've been known to be wrong before. (although you'll not find any witnesses to that effect:))
The letter of the law - Etaphreven - 02-04-2008
Good post my friend. I could not agree more with it.
If people would just take the time to READ the damned things, it'd all be better. It's not like it takes 5 effin' days to read them!
The letter of the law - Boss - 02-05-2008
I read them, and still had some confusion as to what was permissible in PvP. (I got shot without provocation by a Gaian...That didn't turn out well for the diamonds.)
Thanks to Daniel Feenix for clarification. (I think it was him, anyway. Phil Rocconan?)
The letter of the law - pchwang - 02-05-2008
Not hazy Del?
I have a humorous challenge for you!! :P
Say I have a trader named...Gordon.Schroder. He's a nice guy, his brother is a lawyer who carries the other lawyer's briefcase on Holstein, and he's married with two children.
He's an independent space trucker, as some would put it, but the more generic term is that he pilots a Transport. A typical, 1000 unit cargo transport, since the Schroders could not afford anything more(Tommy Schroder gave up his allowance so pops could by it).
So, Gordon does some trade runs, and by law of the Sirius Licensing Commission, Gordon has a trader ID. After all, all his runs are perfectly legal.
Then, one day, Gordon's friend Sam says, "Yo. Dude. There's this trade route that goes from London to Tokyo. It's like...totally...way out, dude. Like, seriously gnarly, dude!"
And Gordon is like, "Aite, I gotta check this out..."
Unfortunately, Gordon gets stopped by the po-po(fuzz, police, etc...) in Bretonia, for using the Tau-31 system to trade with Kusari. They are tagged BPA, and Gordon just spent nearly all his cash on the cargo. He can't afford to lose it, and he does not give a darn about what the BPA says.
The BPA fire on him, and Gordon returns fire, only to be struck down by a lightning bolt by the Sirius Gods, who seriously got ticked off. Why?
Quote:6.16 Owners of Trader IDs have a right to attack:
- Pirates
I know it would be proper to use common sense there, but I thought it would be interesting.
The letter of the law - Xoria - 02-05-2008
Quote:The BPA fire on him, and Gordon returns fire, only to be struck down by a lightning bolt by the Sirius Gods, who seriously got ticked off. Why?
6.16 Owners of Trader IDs have a right to attack:
- Pirates
Then the "Sirius gods" were in error.
Quote:5.2 If a player is attacked*, he has a right to defend himself regardless of who is attacking. There are no restrictions for self-defense.
Shooting the police or military might be "illegal" for a Trader from a role-playing standpoint, but it is NOT a violation of server rules if it is in self-defense. A lawful trader engaging in a criminal act in violation of the law is a roleplaying activity. It has nothing whatsoever to do with server rules in the scenario that you outlined.
There is nothing fuzzy about that.
The letter of the law - badkarmasix - 02-05-2008
That scenario is little dodgy. First of all, what was said trucker carrying? To my knowledge, there is no total transportation ban in effect in Tau-31.
Quote:Official Bretonian Dispatch:
Moving any of the following items across the Bretonian border into Tau space is illegal, and will be treated as an act of war, making the transporter of said goods, an enemy combatant.
Plutonium
Deuterium
Hfuel
MOX
Military Vehicles
Light Arms
Ship Hull panels
Engine Components
The Barbarians will not gain war material through our borders
Restrictions apply to listed goods only, yes? If otherwise, a written amendment to the Codex would seem appropriate.
Furthermore, and to agree that the "Sirius gods" were in error, the only server rule that would seem to come into effect here is the aforementioned 5.2. The only rule the trucker would be breaking would be a House/RP rule, if he was indeed carrying one of the restricted commodities - but the given example didn't specify.
I agree with Del that the server rules are fairly clear and concise.
I apologize if I'm just parroting what Xoria stated. It just irks me when the laws - server and House/RP - are "interpreted" liberally.
Cheers,
Idaho
The letter of the law - pchwang - 02-05-2008
Quote:I have a humorous challenge for you!!That was meant to be humorous, not to prove an actual point. It was also addressed to Del. I agree with him that the rules are quite clear, only there are a few inconsistencies. I'm only going to do this, because apparently, it was not clear that this was a joke.
While you and others may have them memorized back and forth and are intelligent enough to understand them, there are those who don't.
But first,
Quote:Restrictions apply to listed goods only, yes? If otherwise, a written amendment to the Codex would seem appropriate.I am actually refering to the Food/Engine Components run, which would be illegal(unless the brets allow you to bring engines back into bretonia? But the purpose of the blockade, in RP, was to hurt the Kusari economy, they have their own engines). I just did not want to reveal the route to everyone, since this is "Discovery."
Now, back to Xoria's point. It's a good point, and honestly, I over looked 5.2. I've always taken that one for granted(the drop half shields allows for self defense).
But the fact is, there is an inconsistency. There have been people punished for not obeying the rules laid out by their ID, and no where in my story does it say that Gordon's shields dropped down by 50%, which actually justifies an attack.
Now there is something else to ponder...
Quote:*For purposes of these Rules occasional shooting or shooting "for fun" does not count as an attack if it does not result in draining shields to 50% or lower or hull damage. Intentional ramming of any large ship is also considered an attack.So...if threatened by the BPA, can Gordon "legally" fire back before his shields drain by 50%?
or does this rule only apply to < Level 30 players shooting at >30 Players?
Of course, it would be legal for Gordon to fire back. You know that and I know that because of RP and common sense.
But unless you want the Admin to enforce the ESRB Teen rating on the Freelancer box in-game, I suggest the rules be made completely simple, obvious, and fool-proof(literally).
The letter of the law - Reverend Del - 02-05-2008
Whilst I understand that some of the users may find the rules a tad hard to understand, whether it be through poor english, or just through not getting it. Most of the posts I was refering to are posted by people who clearly do understand the rules and are just trying to find a way round them.
Posting for clarification should not be looked down upon and if it seemed like I was advocating that, I apologise.