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+---- Thread: Fafnir (/showthread.php?tid=60178)
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Fafnir - Prysin - 05-21-2011
Ok, i dont see WHY this happened, but i DO KNOW that in the past (4.85.0/1) before the great agility nerf of bombers. Fafnir had a 57.4k Energy core. Becuz back then i used to fly one with dual snacs.....
Ok, i DO NOT see the logic here. Its as big as the bottlenose, it has less turning then some cruisers, it has less guns then most 5K transports. SO WHY, did you nerf its core to 52k?
Give it the old core back, it is illogical to remove its ONLY advantage (the ability to have 2 snacs and a TCD) when its so hopelessly terrible in every other aspect. It doesnt even have the best armor and b/b count of the bombers...
Give it the old core back
Energy Capacity: 57 400 units
Regeneration: (i think it was) 2850 u/second
Fafnir is suffering on ALL aspects, i havent seen anyone but myself and two others fly it since i started playing here. Atleast, give it one advantage.
Fafnir - teschy - 05-21-2011
And while you're at it, make the Bergelmir bigger than a light fighter.
Fafnir - Kontrazec (Somni) - 05-21-2011
' Wrote:And while you're at it, make the Bergelmir bigger than a light fighter.
Second that.
EDIT: However, Prysin, the Fafnir DOES have the best hull, 26,500, and next highest is Barghest at 24,500. Also, Fafnir's powercore is 50,880u, with 2,735 u/s recharge. And it has 125 b/b, 10 more than Barghest. So, what?
Fafnir - michiyl - 05-21-2011
' Wrote:Ok, i dont see WHY this happened, but i DO KNOW that in the past (4.85.0/1) before the great agility nerf of bombers. Fafnir had a 57.4k Energy core. Becuz back then i used to fly one with dual snacs.....One advantage?
Ok, i DO NOT see the logic here. Its as big as the bottlenose, it has less turning then some cruisers, it has less guns then most 5K transports. SO WHY, did you nerf its core to 52k?
Give it the old core back, it is illogical to remove its ONLY advantage (the ability to have 2 snacs and a TCD) when its so hopelessly terrible in every other aspect. It doesnt even have the best armor and b/b count of the bombers...
Give it the old core back
Energy Capacity: 57 400 units
Regeneration: (i think it was) 2850 u/second
Fafnir is suffering on ALL aspects, i havent seen anyone but myself and two others fly it since i started playing here. Atleast, give it one advantage.
According to the wiki, it's one out of 3 bombers that can mount a class 6 freighter shield (and you won't have to fight the other 2 bombers with that ability, because 1 is Bretonian, the other's Liberty Rogue/Molly)!
Class 6 Freighter shield stats:
max. 29200 hit points
Class 10 Heavy Fighter shield stats:
max. 11038.4 hit points.
-> almost three times more shield!
Of course, this would've been quite a monster bomber if you still had the "old" powercore capable of dual SNACs.
Fafnir - Prysin - 05-21-2011
OK, i admitt i forgot it had more hull then 'hest
BUT, that shield and that hull dont matter. YOU CANT DODGE A BS PULSE CANNON FROM 2K.... (exaggerated, yes)
THe ship is less manourverable then some if not most of the cruisers. Its bigger then many gunboats/ships.
The fafnir costs almost TWICE that of the other two Super Bombers... It has less guns, as the turrets fire backwards if im not misstaken. THat means 2 bombers guns... a snac... a nova...
Barghest has 4 guns + 1 turret forward
Challenger has atleast 4 guns, but i dunno bout turrets or not.
Bother Challenger and Barghest turns WAY better, their smaller and they have more or less same hull strenght. Neither of them cost 14m to buy, Neither of them need a repairship to keep them alive even at "sniping" distance.
Freighter shield goes down to 2 GB pulses (due to 10% thingy that mjolnir so energentically explained for the 1 millionth time now). Also, the Freighter shields use QUITE alot of energy to regen, you might not belive me. BUT if you fly a junker Recycler (it has freighter shield and 30k core) it cannot use snac if the shield is regenerating. so YES, they are just as much "pro" as their a "con".....
The fact that the Fafnir, although a potent ship, has so many practical disadvantages makes it rather.... pointless.
Yes on paper its all fine and dandy, its OP as hell. Imagine a dual snac freighter D:> impossible... or wait... It handles worse then a freighter, its bigger then a freighter. The Torp mount angles IS NOT that great... and the ship cannot dodge a GB missile.
I dont see a spam of these a threat anyway, so its no negative thing to give them their old core back. Either way, a SHF can stay on this ships arse for a millennium before the turrets can take it down. The is NO snub, that should be able to loose to this ship. SImply because there is no ship, not even a challenger, that has so horrid turning that it cant stay behind this ship.
________________________________________________________________
Berglemir has been nerfed in EVERY mod update there is since its debut in .83?
I know that when they added bomber guns, they made Berglemir 10% bigger
When they nerfed agility, they made the ship (or the hitbox, dunno which) another 5 or 10% bigger...
I also know that Berglemir USED to have 48k core like Barghest, but was reduced to 45k like most other heavy bombers.
It has also had its agility continuosly nerfe since it was added to the mod.
Fafnir - Kontrazec (Somni) - 05-21-2011
Well, if this is really the case, if it's so damn horrible to fly, then it's not really the powercore that matters (dual nova FTW, barghest style... a second SNAC won't change much), it's the maneuverability. It's one thing to be able to move like a LF sized bergelmir, and a completely different to maneuver slower than a cruiser. Now, I've never flown a Fafnir, so I've no idea if you are or aren't overreacting, but if you aren't, then yeah, the problem is its maneuverability.
Fafnir - mjolnir - 05-22-2011
You seem to have rather incorrect information Prysin
' Wrote:Ok, i dont see WHY this happened, but i DO KNOW that in the past (4.85.0/1) before the great agility nerf of bombers. Fafnir had a 57.4k Energy core. Becuz back then i used to fly one with dual snacs.....
Fafnir was never able to fire 2 SNs at once. And it could always fire the SN at same rate as now
Also don't know what great agility nerf of bombers you are talking about. Bombers got different guns.
' Wrote:I also know that Berglemir USED to have 48k core like Barghest, but was reduced to 45k like most other heavy bombers.
Berglemir always had same powercore as Prætorian/GMG bomber and since 4.84 fired SNs at exactly same rate as now.
Fafnir - Prysin - 05-22-2011
' Wrote:You seem to have rather incorrect information Prysin
Fafnir was never able to fire 2 SNs at once. And it could always fire the SN at same rate as now
Also don't know what great agility nerf of bombers you are talking about. Bombers got different guns.
Berglemir always had same powercore as Prætorian/GMG bomber and since 4.84 fired SNs at exactly same rate as now.
It had bigger core, so unlike now, it could fire snacs in rapid succession. Do not argue on this, Fafnir was my first "snub" so i know damn well how it could fire two snacs with just 2 seconds interval.. IT CANNOT as it is now..
Fafnir - chopper - 05-22-2011
Berglemir wasn't nerfed, it's still a great bomber, if not the best. Also, very small.
Fafnir - tansytansey - 05-22-2011
Ship Entry from Discovery 4.85 Beta 2 for the Fafnir
Quote:[Ship]
ids_name = 504136
ids_info = 504133
ids_info1 = 504134
ids_info2 = 66608
ids_info3 = 504135
ship_class = 3
nickname = dsy_fafnir
LODranges = 0, 9999
msg_id_prefix = gcs_refer_shiparch_Rhehf
mission_property = can_use_berths
type = FIGHTER
DA_archetype = ships\discovery\xing\fafnir.cmp
material_library = ships\rheinland\rh_playerships.mat
material_library = fx\envmapbasic.mat
envmap_material = envmapbasic
cockpit = cockpits\rheinland\r_elite.ini
pilot_mesh = generic_pilot
nanobot_limit = 125
shield_battery_limit = 125
mass = 265.000000
linear_drag = 1.000000
hold_size = 151
fuse = intermed_damage_smallship01, 0.000000, 1450
fuse = intermed_damage_smallship02, 0.000000, 725
fuse = intermed_damage_smallship03, 0.000000, 483
fuse = drop_cargo_fuse, 0.000000, 1
max_bank_angle = 30
camera_offset = 10, 46
camera_angular_acceleration = 0.050000
camera_horizontal_turn_angle = 20
camera_vertical_turn_up_angle = 5
camera_vertical_turn_down_angle = 30
camera_turn_look_ahead_slerp_amount = 1.000000
hit_pts = 26500
explosion_arch = explosion_rh_elite
surface_hit_effects = 0, small_hull_hit_light01, small_hull_hit_light02, small_hull_hit_light03
surface_hit_effects = 150, small_hull_hit_medium01, small_hull_hit_medium02, small_hull_hit_medium03
surface_hit_effects = 300, small_hull_hit_heavy01, small_hull_hit_heavy02, small_hull_hit_heavy03
steering_torque = 88000.000000, 88000.000000, 100000.000000
angular_drag = 101000.000000, 101000.000000, 95000.000000
rotation_inertia = 22000.000000, 22000.000000, 22000.000000
nudge_force = 30000.000000
strafe_force = 20000
strafe_power_usage = 2
HP_bay_surface = HpBayDoor01
HP_bay_external = HpBayDoor02
shield_link = r_elite_shield01, HpMount, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_gun_special_9, HpWeapon01, HpWeapon02
hp_type = hp_gun_special_8, HpWeapon01, HpWeapon02
hp_type = hp_gun_special_7, HpWeapon01, HpWeapon02
hp_type = hp_gun_special_6, HpWeapon01, HpWeapon02
hp_type = hp_gun_special_5, HpWeapon01, HpWeapon02
hp_type = hp_gun_special_4, HpWeapon01, HpWeapon02
hp_type = hp_gun_special_3, HpWeapon01, HpWeapon02
hp_type = hp_gun_special_2, HpWeapon01, HpWeapon02
hp_type = hp_gun_special_1, HpWeapon01, HpWeapon02
hp_type = hp_freighter_shield_special_6, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_freighter_shield_special_5, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_freighter_shield_special_4, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_freighter_shield_special_3, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_freighter_shield_special_2, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_elite_shield_special_10, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_elite_shield_special_9, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_elite_shield_special_8, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_elite_shield_special_7, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_elite_shield_special_6, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_elite_shield_special_5, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_elite_shield_special_4, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_elite_shield_special_3, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_elite_shield_special_2, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_elite_shield_special_1, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_thruster, HpThruster01
hp_type = hp_mine_dropper, HpMine01
hp_type = hp_countermeasure_dropper, HpCM01
hp_type = hp_turret_special_5, HpTurret01, HpTurret02
hp_type = hp_turret_special_4, HpTurret01, HpTurret02
hp_type = hp_turret_special_3, HpTurret01, HpTurret02
hp_type = hp_turret_special_2, HpTurret01, HpTurret02
hp_type = hp_turret_special_1, HpTurret01, HpTurret02
hp_type = hp_torpedo_special_1, HpTorpedo01, HpTorpedo02
hp_type = hp_torpedo_special_2, HpTorpedo01, HpTorpedo02
HP_tractor_source = HpTractor_Source
num_exhaust_nozzles = 2
[Good]
nickname = dsy_fafnir_hull
category = shiphull
ship = dsy_fafnir
price = 14170300
ids_name = 504136
item_icon = Equipment\models\commodities\nn_icons\rh_elite.3db
[Good]
nickname = dsy_fafnir_package
category = ship
hull = dsy_fafnir_hull
addon = dsy_fafnirpower, internal, 1
addon = ge_re_engine_01, internal, 1
addon = ge_s_scanner_02, internal, 1
addon = shield01_mark08_hf, HpShield01, 1
addon = LargeWhiteSpecial, HpHeadLight01, 1
addon = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight01, 1
addon = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight02, 1
addon = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight03, 1
addon = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight04, 1
addon = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight05, 1
addon = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight06, 1
addon = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight07, 1
addon = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight08, 1
addon = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight09, 1
addon = contrail01, HpConTrail01, 1
addon = contrail01, HpConTrail02, 1
addon = contrail01, HpConTrail03, 1
addon = contrail01, HpConTrail04, 1
addon = DockingLightRedSmall, HpDockLight01, 1
addon = DockingLightRedSmall, HpDockLight02, 1
[Power]
nickname = dsy_fafnirpower
ids_name = 263716
ids_info = 264716
volume = 0.000000
mass = 10
DA_archetype = equipment\models\hardware\li_fusion_reactor.3db
material_library = equipment\models\hardware.mat
capacity = 65000
charge_rate = 3500
thrust_capacity = 1000
thrust_charge_rate = 100
lootable = false
Ship Entry from Discovery 4.85 latest version for the Fafnir
Quote:[Ship]
ids_name = 504136
ids_info = 504133
ids_info1 = 504134
ids_info2 = 66608
ids_info3 = 504135
ship_class = 3
nickname = dsy_fafnir
LODranges = 0, 9999
msg_id_prefix = gcs_refer_shiparch_Rhehf
mission_property = can_use_berths
type = FIGHTER
DA_archetype = ships\discovery\xing\fafnir.cmp
material_library = ships\rheinland\rh_playerships.mat
material_library = fx\envmapbasic.mat
envmap_material = envmapbasic
cockpit = cockpits\rheinland\r_elite.ini
pilot_mesh = generic_pilot
nanobot_limit = 125
shield_battery_limit = 125
mass = 265.000000
linear_drag = 1.000000
hold_size = 151
fuse = intermed_damage_smallship01, 0.000000, 1450
fuse = intermed_damage_smallship02, 0.000000, 725
fuse = intermed_damage_smallship03, 0.000000, 483
fuse = drop_cargo_fuse, 0.000000, 1
max_bank_angle = 30
camera_offset = 10, 46
camera_angular_acceleration = 0.050000
camera_horizontal_turn_angle = 20
camera_vertical_turn_up_angle = 5
camera_vertical_turn_down_angle = 30
camera_turn_look_ahead_slerp_amount = 1.000000
hit_pts = 26500
explosion_arch = explosion_rh_elite
surface_hit_effects = 0, small_hull_hit_light01, small_hull_hit_light02, small_hull_hit_light03
surface_hit_effects = 150, small_hull_hit_medium01, small_hull_hit_medium02, small_hull_hit_medium03
surface_hit_effects = 300, small_hull_hit_heavy01, small_hull_hit_heavy02, small_hull_hit_heavy03
steering_torque = 88000.000000, 88000.000000, 100000.000000
angular_drag = 101000.000000, 101000.000000, 95000.000000
rotation_inertia = 22000.000000, 22000.000000, 22000.000000
nudge_force = 30000.000000
strafe_force = 20000
strafe_power_usage = 2
HP_bay_surface = HpBayDoor01
HP_bay_external = HpBayDoor02
shield_link = r_elite_shield01, HpMount, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_gun_special_6, HpWeapon01, HpWeapon02
hp_type = hp_freighter_shield_special_6, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_freighter_shield_special_5, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_freighter_shield_special_4, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_freighter_shield_special_3, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_freighter_shield_special_2, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_elite_shield_special_10, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_elite_shield_special_9, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_elite_shield_special_8, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_elite_shield_special_7, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_elite_shield_special_6, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_elite_shield_special_5, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_elite_shield_special_4, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_elite_shield_special_3, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_elite_shield_special_2, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_elite_shield_special_1, HpShield01
hp_type = hp_thruster, HpThruster01
hp_type = hp_mine_dropper, HpMine01
hp_type = hp_countermeasure_dropper, HpCM01
hp_type = hp_turret_special_6, HpTurret01, HpTurret02
hp_type = hp_gun_special_1, HpTorpedo01, HpTorpedo02
hp_type = hp_torpedo_special_2, HpTorpedo01, HpTorpedo02, HpTorpedo05
HP_tractor_source = HpTractor_Source
num_exhaust_nozzles = 2
[Good]
nickname = dsy_fafnir_hull
category = shiphull
ship = dsy_fafnir
price = 14170300
ids_name = 504136
item_icon = Equipment\models\commodities\nn_icons\rh_elite.3db
[Good]
nickname = dsy_fafnir_package
category = ship
hull = dsy_fafnir_hull
addon = dsy_fafnirpower, internal, 1
addon = ge_re_engine_01, internal, 1
addon = ge_s_scanner_02, internal, 1
addon = shield01_mark08_hf, HpShield01, 1
addon = LargeWhiteSpecial, HpHeadLight01, 1
addon = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight01, 1
addon = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight02, 1
addon = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight03, 1
addon = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight04, 1
addon = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight05, 1
addon = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight06, 1
addon = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight07, 1
addon = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight08, 1
addon = SlowSmallYellow, HpRunningLight09, 1
addon = contrail01, HpConTrail01, 1
addon = contrail01, HpConTrail02, 1
addon = contrail01, HpConTrail03, 1
addon = contrail01, HpConTrail04, 1
addon = DockingLightRedSmall, HpDockLight01, 1
addon = DockingLightRedSmall, HpDockLight02, 1
[Power]
nickname = dsy_fafnirpower
ids_name = 263716
ids_info = 264716
volume = 0.000000
mass = 10
DA_archetype = equipment\models\hardware\li_fusion_reactor.3db
material_library = equipment\models\hardware.mat
capacity = 50880
charge_rate = 2735
thrust_capacity = 1000
thrust_charge_rate = 100
lootable = false
(Differences highlighted in red)
<strike>Regardless of whether or not the Fafnir needs to be buffed/nerfed, I think we can safely rule out that no changes have been made to the ships stats (aside from universal bomber gun changes) since at least Beta 2 of Discovery 4.85. Unfortunately I don't have the files for the original Beta of 4.85.</strike>
Scratch that. It's 4am so I must have not been focused, Ship Arch entries tell only half the story, the rest of the information has been posted to complete a collaboration for this debate.
Please do note however that before the Bomber Guns were introduced, all Bombers recieved a universal power downgrade so that shield busters and codenamed weapons had an effect on their powercore. In BETA 2 the Supernova used 38000u of power, it now uses 29740.