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+--- Thread: Rule Proposal for Individuals Creating New Clans (/showthread.php?tid=6919)
Rule Proposal for Individuals Creating New Clans - Xoria - 03-13-2008
Should prior membership in another Discovery clan be a prerequisite for leading/proposing another clan?
I say yes.
This will help insure the following :
1. The person has spent some time at Disco already
2. The person will know and be known by other members of the Disco community
3. The person will have been exposed to the way clans operate at Disco and have some understanding of the work involved in running a clan.
4. The person's conduct in another clan will tell the rest of us a lot about how responsible, mature, and creative they are...all being qualities critical to successful clan leadership.
5. If they were in a leadership position in another clan, then they will have firsthand experience about the work involved in running a clan, and the problems (both interpersonal and administrative) that clan leaders have to deal with.
The ONLY reason to create a new clan at Disco is if it is going to ADD to the community in some way. This forum and server belong to all of us, and no one has the right to play here in any way that disregards the gameplay of the rest of us. There is only so much that can be learned from a written clan proposal. The fact is that the proposal is only as good as the members and leadership that will be bringing it to the server, and the rest of us have a right to know what sort of people will be leading a clan that we will have to adjust our gameplay for. There is no better way to learn about what sort of players and leaders people will be than to have experience interacting with them as a part of a team, and from a practical standpoint that means prior clan membership.
Now think about it : aren't many of our criticisms of new clan proposals related to the fact that many of the proposed new clan leaders have never been a member of any other Disco clan? We don't know who they are and we don't know if they have what it takes to lead people. Fundamentally, leading a clan means leading people, and Leadership is a skill that most people do NOT possess, either naturally or as a learned behavior. Leadership is a position that must be EARNED, and it is earned through proving yourself to possess good judgment, creativity, and (in this case) solid roleplaying skills (among other traits).
There is no better way to learn this about someone than by evaluating their conduct in one of Disco's already existing clans.
So I propose :
Quote:
All new clan leaders proposing a new clan must have a history of membership in good standing with at least one already existing Disco clan for a period of at least one month prior to proposing and leading their own clan. "Good Standing" is defined as being an active member who has not been expelled from the clan, or received any Server Rule sanctions involving character/account bans in the month prior to the clan proposal.
Rule Proposal for Individuals Creating New Clans - Unseelie - 03-13-2008
My only opposition to this is people like Jinx...if jinx were to try and make a BHG or Zoner clan, which she deserves the right to do, this rule would deny her that....But she's the only example that I can think of. So, agree wholeheartedly, with an exception made for Jinx...and the mythical indies like her.
Rule Proposal for Individuals Creating New Clans - Treewyrm - 03-13-2008
Hmm, let me think. Well, currently I'm not going to make a vote on this right now because the reasonable part tends to agree with you, but the other one does not. Rather confused on this one. May be not a mandatory but strongly suggested, but then again those two might as well be the same.
Rule Proposal for Individuals Creating New Clans - aster - 03-13-2008
I voted yes.
In principle an excellent idea.
However, individuals, not showing any affiliation are the vast majoity on the server (at least when I play).
There are few restrictions on the RP of individuals if they stick within the rules. Their RP can be even more screwy than any proposed faction. The RP might be frowned upon but it won't be sanctionable (unless they break a rule). There is no conceivable rule to stop individuals RP together. So here is a problem.
If we put barriers in their way how are we to stop them creating characters without tags and just doing their thing anyway.
Is it better that a common tag for a group that are acting together, regardless of how ill conceived the proposition? At least once they are out in the open we as a community can talk them.
I remind you I voted yes... so I think it is a good idea... just occassionally we have to beware that by introducing rules that we don't promote an even more unwanted side effect.
Rule Proposal for Individuals Creating New Clans - Jwnantze - 03-13-2008
Useelie, yes, but notice....Jinx has been active and interacting with us on the forums and in game for months. No one should have a problem with her.
Rule Proposal for Individuals Creating New Clans - Jinx - 03-13-2008
voted "no", of course. official factions have: ( dammit, i m too predictable )
being part of a faction does not grant you a greater insight into how disco works. making the faction creation harder is a stupid thing to do. - why?
- there were recent discussion about cutting independent rights on the server... and now you wonder everyone wants to make a playerfaction?
- playerfactions ensure a greater control over the faction and its members. - being official means, there is a person that is responsible, a person you can talk to if things get messy. so - having more playerfaciotns around means that not only more people use the forum, but also that problems can be solved with the faction or its representatives itself, rather than a general "complaint" thread about the nasty independents.
forcing players into a faction before they can make their own can backfire. how long must a player be member of a faction? - a specific time?, must he be active? active in groups, in the forum, or just be there? and how does it help.
making a faction is allready a difficult thing to do. - posting the ideas officially, getting torn to bits if the idea is a little out of the ordinary - and i don t see many of the previously presented factions being created - except those of the "established" members. - but i don t think they are approved cause the members have been members of other playerfactions - but only cause they have a good "base" of supporters and - yes... know what ideas are not "worth" posting. ( like feline aliens, cybernetic lifeforms, or other whatever aliens with godlike powers )
personally, i don t like every faction there is - most ( and i admit - most unofficial factions ) are plainly stupid, some official factions are silly, too. - but if the majority of the server accepts them, its fine. one can and should deal with it in RP. - in worst case - create an enemy char to that factions and give them hell.
i say - leave it as it is. factions are posted officially, - if the idea is bad, it will get shot down. if - however, the overall resonance is positive, i don t think there should be restrictions made to forbid those facitons. keep it simple.
Rule Proposal for Individuals Creating New Clans - Stoat - 03-13-2008
I think no. I don't think being part of a faction necessarily enlightens anyone to the finer points of faction creation within Discovery. Being an active member of the forums does give a better idea, but even then there's no guarantee that the ideas which are then expoused are going to be any better.
I think the current way works best. People will either
1 - Come up with a good idea, which is well researched, and the community will go Yay
2 - The idea will need work, pointers will be posted an the emerging faction evolves into something that makes the community go Yay
3 - The idea gets shot down.
So leave it as it is.
Edit: I do agree that the only reason to create a clan is if it is going to add to the community in some way. I think the main reason for the "go join a clan first" reaction is that some of the clans that are proposed already exist on the server. It's in those cases that joining the existing clan is a good way to go. Then, if the clan doesn't fit what they want to do, they can RP a split from the existing clan to form a subgroup.
Rule Proposal for Individuals Creating New Clans - Eppy - 03-13-2008
Hm...I'm going to tender a tentative "Yes" here, but Jinx and Stoat bring up a few points that need to be addressed if/when this is discussed in greater detail.
Rule Proposal for Individuals Creating New Clans - chopper - 03-13-2008
As the time goes by, there will be no more factions to create. If you noticed, in the last month - almost all small factions are getting their representatives.
In 2-3 months, there won't be a single faction left without a clan to represent it.
Now, can you imagine new players coming, and looking all of that?
I can see at least 10 factions that are official although their RP is actually a lot worse then these new factions.
I won't get into details, as it would cause a flame war.
My point is, our expectations go higher and higher with the time.
Should it be like that? I don't know.
Should all factions be reviewed? Should we make a complete server restart each year?
I don't know.
I just know that I see Bundschuh shot down, though their RP story and even behavior is better then at least 30% of the standard - official factions.
I have nothing against it, don't get me wrong. I'm just pointing it out to show that it's already hard to get official.
Point is - new players are trying more then older players did, and still they don't get the same chance.
If someone makes an Outcast faction tomorrow, if it has better RP then RoS, BLS, and 66th, why should it be shot down?
If someone makes a Corsair faction which has better RP then TBH and Benitez, why should it be shot down?
And the reasons are - there are too many Outcast/Corsair factions.
Well, if you don't give them a chance to prove they are better then old factions, then this is not a really good place to be.
It's like saying - Server is full anyway, go play on Void.
Older factions already have many advantages, they are first in the chain of command, they own the guard systems, etc.
What are we going to do in 3 months, when no more factions are needed?
Are we going to spin in circles, seeing nothing new?
I guarantee you, new factions can bring a lot of fun.
If you play all the time with same people, RP-ing with same people, fighting with same people..
You get bored.
New factions will always be needed, in order for us to have fun.
That's the whole point.
My opinion is that a guy can register tomorrow, and submit a faction in 2 days.
If it's a good and original proposal, and if they are decent in game, they will get my 'yes'.
Always.
And I don't see a reason for such a rule at all.
I don't find it difficult to read all those proposals in there.
I don't think others find it difficult as well.
Admins will read what the community thinks, and they will say 'yes' or 'no'.
If it's too hard for them - too bad. We need more admins then.
I really think the system is good as it is, for a change.
The last one with PM-ing was way less democratic, and I was against it all the time.
This one is going towards that one again, and that is something I don't want.
Voted 'No'.
Rule Proposal for Individuals Creating New Clans - cmfalconer - 03-13-2008
Voted no as well for all the reasons Jinx stated, she just beat me to it. I flew around for months on Disco w/o joining a faction. Didn't want to. Now that I've joined SCRA, it's kinda still business as usual. I don't think anyone's had a problem with any of my characters (pretty inconspicuous) but joining a faction hasn't really changed that part of it.
If someone decides to write up a proposal, and it could be a GREAT proposal, almost perfect in every way, but that be his/her 1st post on the forums, they're going to get toasted I believe.
Yeah, a good majority of new faction proposals, and the unofficial groups buzzing around, are pretty far-fetched to put it nicely, but would this really have changed if the authors had been in a faction to start?