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+--- Thread: Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing (/showthread.php?tid=70170)
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Blighter - 12-17-2011
It has come to my attention that come .86 we'll be looking at a sort-of "automated tech-chart". This is supposed to work that way that if you mix-match technology from a white-cell for example, like a Chimaera with Hornvipers as I've, you receive an automated nerf. I think that's a pretty good idea, because if we look at red-cell mix-matching, it will entirely be possible and we will end up without XYZ RP revolving simply around a technology grant, and we won't per-say need SRPs anymore as everything will be open for everyone, at a price. I think that's a good thing myself, we'll waste less time on threads that go like this:
"I want A, I offer B. Deal?"
"No, I want C instead of B."
"Ok. Here's C."
"Deal now!"
We'll also reduce OP ship and gear combinations and we'll have people use the stuff that matches their ID and otherwise more often due to the nerfing, while on the other hand those who really badly want special X or Y or Z will still be able to get it. That too is a good thing in my book.
But I don't like how this will affect some factions:
Take the AGS-L/U for example. They're basically speaking one big alliance under roughly the same banner, comprised of two actual factions. It makes no sense whatsoever that mix-matching tech in their case would be nerfed. They are allied, they share the technology, they work together on a daily basis, and there is no RP explanation I can think of to justify a nerf. They could maintain the tech, they would make it work seamlessly, flawlessly, and they wouldn't have any problems complementing one another. I can easily see the Unioners supplying the LWB with Arbeiters while the LWB adds another kind of guns to the Unioners in turn. It makes zero sense they wouldn't do it, the official factions representing them fly under the same banner and are a tight-knit bunch. Not to mention, come .86 the LWB get nothing new in terms of ships. The Unioners get a re-made Arbeiter and a brand-new Bomber. No ships for the LWB, just a re-worked Guardsystem. No fancy things. Let's not forget that Rheinland also has the under-represented Bunschuh, who last I checked don't get anything either. Techmix nerfing isn't going to make those more attractive.
Different example and a different aspect: Take the SCRA. They have the Karl Marx and the Havana, their two Osirises. Last I remember these ships worked flawlessly and formed the heavy armor backbone of the fleet. They've worked perfectly fine for years on end, over and over. Why wouldn't they work fine now? I'm sure it's easy to say: Because of age, lack of parts, blah blah blah, but as I said, so far they worked and work just fine. And I don't think anyone but the SCRA leadership has the right to say: It doesn't work anymore. Come .86 they don't get their own Battleship to replace it however.
Then you have the corner I come from, the HF. The HF majorly uses its shared capital ships for massive raids. Those include:
The Rogue / Molly Gunboats Charybdis and Scylla, the Liberty Gunboat Undaunted, the Liberty Cruisers Damocles and Excalibur, the LABC Last Sunrise, the Storta Abaddon, to a lesser extent the Rogue / Molly Destroyer Iblis, the Osiris Battleship Incursus, the Ranseur Ven'Gyr, and finally the Spyglass Libertine.
Aside from the last one, all of that would get nerfed automatically. As HF HC, I have to say: This sucks. We've fought tooth and nail to get those things, and now we're looking at them most certainly getting autonerfed. We have worked out a white-cell for Liberty tech after a long, long period of time, and we've agreed to not use them except with Liberty tech on Liberty ships. No mix-matching in this case. We've had the other ships, most of them at least, for very, very long times, Ven'Gyr and Incursus in particular, and the latter together with the Undaunted are basically SRP'd. Now what? Limit their usefulness? We don't fancy personal capital ships that much really and aside from the odd Lane Hacker Gunship (those of which we'll turn into our new Gunboats anyway) and like 1 and 1/2 personal Spyglasses along with two that just exist as Vespucci defense, our whole fleet is built around all those ships I've mentioned before. All but one of them are NOT HF-tech and won't be HF-tech come .86. For two and a half years we've been working on and figuring out tactics and gameplay and everything around those ships, built the whole fleet so each part would complement another, much like the HF tech itself with our statistic proposals for the new gear and ships were designed to complement our EXISTING tech, rather than work on its own, starting with a heavy Gunboat that can only fire two guns to the rear, to the middle-ground new Spyglass which is meant to complement the Ven'Gyr and Incursus, our main heavy-hitter / capbuster and special-use BSes respectively.
Now I have to say here: We will not have access to Liberty technology nor Lane Hacker technology come .86, and as we're a closed faction we can't exactly have 123 people going out and mixmatching Stortas or Tridentes or Ranseurs with our technology, so the point of tech-abuse that might be raised is already moot. We'd just like to keep what we have, as that's proven time and time again that it works, and that we don't really need that much more as long as we have our stuff. It's also part of our niche to be very partial to our history, and most of those ships - bar the recent addition of the two Rogue Gunboats - are parts of said history. They have worked and been with us for years, of particular mention being the Ven'Gyr, Incursus, and the (relatively) recently re-acquired (due to the Lib whitecell) Last Sunrise. They're ancient as much as the Havana or Karl Marx are. They've worked so far, and I don't think anyone other than the HF can say here: No, they don't work anymore.
We've literally spent years with those boats we have and we've been using them and doing our best to perfect their use for just the same amount of time, years, only to watch them get stomped now?
I don't think we're the only ones who may end up having problems like that, but okay, there is something I have to say as an HF Executive Commander in Reserve:
Does our stuff have to get broken and nerfed automatically, despite us being a closed faction, despite us not abusing our tech, despite us not having done so before, despite us having fought tooth and nail to keep what we have throghout the years, despite us having laid-out all our existing stuff to complement our other existing stuff, despite us having laid out all our new stuff to complement our exisiting stuff, despite all the time and effort invested into making it work?
These ships and the combinations we do aren't just ships and parts of history however, even though they are part of the latter very much, some dating back to the HF's very early days like the Ven'Gyr, or the Incursus that dates back to when there was a Black Squadron and a DBoy around, and the Liberty Navy ships being just as important in the history seeing as we originated and still partially are comprised of defectors rising up against their former comrades.
But those ships more importantly are part of the HF's IDENTITY, not just symbolic either but what the faction is KNOWN for, the Ven'Gyr closing in on enemy ships and tearing them apart, the Incursus being incredibly frustrating to kill at times, the Sunrise being one of the most annoying ships to fight against ever if left unchecked, the Scylla being a total nightmare against any Gunboats that try to harm what it is protecting, the Abaddon being one of the best supporting Destroyers there are if used right, that's part of this faction's core being. We have formed our gamplay and tactics around these ships and molded it so we can have things function, we have worked with them for years and used them extensively, we didn't just make them trophies and left them in our Guard System, having them sit there and collect dust, we've made them our heavy-hitting force, our main fleet, the core of our big raids, where it is our big raids and those raids' results which are, beyond anything else, the one big thing the faction's known for. So does our stuff really have to get broken and nerfed?
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Pancakes - 12-17-2011
I r support lord-commader!
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Omicron - 12-17-2011
Reapers have simmiliar problem... possess Outcast technology that won't be entirely replaced with 4.86
Order| as well use LIMITED ammount of Zoner ships and do not abuse it.
All work of [HF], SCRA, any other faction that faces simmiliar problem: wasted?
Explanation concerning details about it would be neccesary.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - mayu20 - 12-17-2011
Indeed what Mara say is true. I still think the nerf thing is ok and not so ok. I know that nerfing every item for every person will get tons of work and no one wants that, but still, maybe no nerfing for official factions? Or, another solution would be a commad to nerf the guns for a specific ID like for eg: .nerf Pirate ID Firekiss, or something like that. Good post Mara.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Jansen - 12-17-2011
Very true. The AGS sadly does not have some things nearly every other faction has, for example a Gunboat (Even though there is a really great model on the forums Q_Q_Q_Q_Q_Q_Q_Q). So thats going to hit us pretty hard.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Azan27 - 12-17-2011
It doesn't make sense to me that official factions should be made to suffer a nerf in the effectiveness of the ships that they have earned via long standing roleplay. Many smaller factions rely heavily on white-cell technology not only as a way to increase their combat effectivness (Which I do not beleive is the reason behind many of the tech sharing agreements today,) but also as a way of having a solid, in-game representation of the stories that a faction has developed. Owning another faction's ship isn't just a way to get an advantage in combat; its a testament to the roleplay of the past, and to many expereinces that players of different factions have had together. These ships hold a huge emotional value to many factions out there. A gunboat might be memory of an old allaince. A set of guns might remind you of the time when you spent days in enemy territory, hunting down hostile targets for your allies. In my experience, the number of official faction members that use techmixing to gain an advantage in combat is very low. Most just want to advertise the diplomatic connections that their faction has developed, and others just want something special for a little bling value. Overall, mixed tech is something that smaller factions like the Landwirtrechtbewegung rely on. I'm all for a tech system that requires the admins to do less mind-numbing tech sanction work, but I would prefer that it didn't auto-nerf the ships that factions have worked hard to build up. Whats more, factions like the LWB side of the AGS have already invested heavily in tech belonging to white cell factions, such as unioner and hessian ships. A nerf now will essentially devalue the ships that many people have spent a while saving to buy.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Jeremy Hunter - 12-17-2011
I support this.
Havana and Karl Marx are as much as our identity and symbol as Ven'Gyr and Incursus.
(clap) Mara, a most excellent post.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Petitioner - 12-17-2011
I saw Bundschuh.
I'd like to point out this is kind of a [redacted] thing to do, not only to factions like the HF, who have worked hard and have incredible amounts of story, effort, dedication, and above all, heart, put into things that are now being arbitrarily discouraged from being used, but also to groups like the Bundschuh, who never had the chance to get nice things that are so significant.
A short view from the RV^'s perspective, which will be elaborated upon when I'm less busy:
The Sabre kind of gets old really quickly. We'd like to use things like Arbiters, Lokis, and Heimdalls in numbers that are small, sensible, and balanced.
Some factions, by their very nature, can hardly be overpowered. Bundschuh's one of them.
Make sense?
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - mayu20 - 12-17-2011
Actualy Azrael Domonov the players want other that the faction tech FOR PvP not for RP. I am sure of that and others as well.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Stoat - 12-17-2011
I've been in the HF for going on four years now. These ships are part of the very fabric of the faction. To see them summarily nerfed by a rule that rides rough-shod over YEARS of established roleplay is sickening. This is meant to be a server where RP means something. It is, however, before you all jump in shouting that RP should be held above PvP in all cases, a fact that the HF are a military faction. PvP is central to our very being, to our very role. This rips the heart out of that role.